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ymbmg

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2016
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Ok, my first question would be your current age, to be bringing this sort of mathematics into a tower defense guide. It seems like the majority of cubecraft players are not taking high enough math classes to have learned any of this, possibly not even algrebra. And why did you choose to use function notation? It seems this wouldn't have been too hard to write with slightly more simple algebraic equations, making it far easier for most people to understand.
If you can follow it though, I definitely like the content, very thorough, and full of useful statistics I would eventually have bothered looking into myself in game, but now don't have to.
You also mentioned making a total of 8 parts. Afterwards, you should get the important parts of each one and put it all together in one guide. I was thinking about making my own guide, and you mentioned not making one on playing with random people, so I will probably look into writing about that. I play most of my games with random people, averaging about 10% rate of decent players. Roughly 1/10 vote kicks are successful, and they seem far better used as threats.
Anyway, thanks for the great guide, I can't wait to read all 8 parts.
I'm 21 years old. I was born in 1995, and that's why I have "95" in my in-game username. I'm glad you liked the guides too. As far as why I chose function notation, I'm a programmer, and I use functions a lot. I thought about choosing something easier, but I feel like damage is very procedural based. I felt that it was more accurate to use functions, and not just describe it as a formula. If statement usage (Like if it's a blaze, then a mage tower can't hurt it.) is the leading reason for me using functions. However, I do agree with you on the teaching aspect of things. Younger players are more likely to understand something other than function notation. It's only due to it being more procedural that I used functions.

Thanks for giving a lot of thought towards it. I had recently thought that there were just too many players that didn't try to use their intuition, you've reminded me (a few others have as well) that there are players out there that do. I look forward to writing the next part even more now.
 

betty's oldies

Forum Expert
Since the other guides are older than 2 weeks old since last post, I'll add another tip here:

I will also add that it's a good idea to always keep your money low but make the most out of the money. By doing this, this allows the money to be put to use instead of banking it. Banked money = unused money which translates to fewer towers/troops produced. This is a form of bad macro (macromanagement) and leads to less XP/min and CPS.

What I mean in this example:

Let's say you have 2k coins. A fully upgraded TNT tower costs 500 coins. You decide to spend the 2k coins on 4 fully upgraded TNT towers. Though you should have spent the money earlier, at least it's better than going to mid-high 4 digits unless you're saving for a push.

This is a way to put your money to use while maximizing its potential. Now, if the guy decides to spam 20 level 1 TNT towers with the 2k coins, then it's not making the most out of it since quality > quantity. Therefore, the first case (fully upgrading towers) is a better way to make use of it.

Now let's compare to banking from 2k up to 6k (UNLESS you are saving up for giants or blazes). If the spender commits to defense only, then this is bad. Using our TNT tower example, the 6k coins could have gone to 12 fully upgraded TNT towers and at least deal some damage.
 

ymbmg

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2016
146
165
118
29
Since the other guides are older than 2 weeks old since last post, I'll add another tip here:

I will also add that it's a good idea to always keep your money low but make the most out of the money. By doing this, this allows the money to be put to use instead of banking it. Banked money = unused money which translates to fewer towers/troops produced. This is a form of bad macro (macromanagement) and leads to less XP/min and CPS.

What I mean in this example:

Let's say you have 2k coins. A fully upgraded TNT tower costs 500 coins. You decide to spend the 2k coins on 4 fully upgraded TNT towers. Though you should have spent the money earlier, at least it's better than going to mid-high 4 digits unless you're saving for a push.

This is a way to put your money to use while maximizing its potential. Now, if the guy decides to spam 20 level 1 TNT towers with the 2k coins, then it's not making the most out of it since quality > quantity. Therefore, the first case (fully upgrading towers) is a better way to make use of it.

Now let's compare to banking from 2k up to 6k (UNLESS you are saving up for giants or blazes). If the spender commits to defense only, then this is bad. Using our TNT tower example, the 6k coins could have gone to 12 fully upgraded TNT towers and at least deal some damage.

I'd like to comment a bit on this quote here, because there's a lot of thought in it, and I like the idea of mentioning what's called "macro-management" even though this is a game. I posted part four of my guide and talked a bit about static players and dynamic players, and keeping your money spent in order to handle rushes early does have its upsides. As far as I know from chatting with hyperBravo, he seems to be a solo player, meaning a lot of his time is spent with teammates that he's not familiar with. If you have your coins allocated in your towers, then you can relax and be at ease some for the mobs that your towers can handle; However, on the other hand, if his teammates aren't placing archer towers or necromancer towers, and hyperBravo's suddenly faced with endermites, blazes, or giants, then he himself can't defend against those mobs. Having spent everything in artillery towers, he has no coins to handle air mobs with, and he's left defense a bit open on his end. Macro-management in the business world does involve having your resources (money, people, and time) spent in the correct places. However, you also want to have money in the event that something happens, such as a power issue or snowstorm. Imagine that you own a shop, and for 15 days you can't sell anything, because the streets in your city are closed. Bills like property taxes, rent for a public building, electric to power the building, etc. still come in. If you have all of your money tied up paying people's wages, keeping up on inventory and so on, then you'll find yourself low on money or even bankrupt if you don't have some money saved for this kind of situation. Being able to keep yourself covered in these areas is important, so whereas hyperBravo may have all ground mob rushes handled, he can't handle much else at the time. I'm keenly aware that if several types of rushes are sent at him at concurrently, there's not much he can do alone. That being said, I still like the idea of having some coins to fall back on if one person decides to send a crazy rush. This type of play-style where nearly all of your resources are spent at once is what I've called static game-play. For more information on this, I recommend reading part four of my guide, or thinking about the differences between having your money allocated beforehand and having your money on hand in order to adapt to situations a bit more keenly. As I say in part four, both approaches have their upside. Having money spent on towers beforehand does limit which mobs you have to worry about in the future. If everyone covers most all areas of defense, there's really not much to worry about. Air mob rushes are a bit of a general exception to this, but if players keep potions on hand, even air mob rushes aren't that difficult to handle. I'm glad hyperBravo posted this, it's given me an opportunity to point things out.

You can learn a lot about business management in a game like this, because of concepts like resource allocation. I find the concepts alone to be interesting, and that's why I pour so much thought into writing comments like this. Whether you go on to apply what you learn here in life, or elsewhere online, or whether you just like the ideas themselves, looking into comments posted on the forums is a good thing. Keeping your knowledge, experiences, and others' experiences in constant hindsight and verifying that you're not working under false pretenses is a good way to play a game like this.

Thanks for posting this comment hyperBravo, it's allowed me to discuss things in good detail. For the players reading this out there, good luck to you in-game, and I hope that this comment was useful to you in some way.
 

betty's oldies

Forum Expert
@Pixelated_PI

Please do not necropost as it is against the rules.
Thanks in advance.

Can you lock this thread, please? @YounB
He actually didn't necro. He posted within the 14 day gap.

@ymbmg: Since my brother got his MC confiscated and my friends don't play MC often, I'm pretty much turned to more of a solo player and less of a team player. I'll add more when I get back.
 
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hyena3000

Well-Known Member
Sep 24, 2015
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@UnRealiized

Just curious. Do you actually find Tower Defense interesting, want to add to the the discussion, play it at all? Or is your favorite game on cubecraft reporting necro posts?
 

ymbmg

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2016
146
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@Pixelated_PI

Please do not necropost as it is against the rules.
Thanks in advance.

Can you lock this thread, please? @YounB

TimeLord posted this rule below:

"5- No Necro-posting, pointless posts that do not contribute to the topic in any way (Single word posts such as k, +1, ok, cool etc...), threads that the last post has been posted more than 2 weeks ago are not allowed to be revived (does not include forum games threads)."

She posted it here: https://www.cubecraft.net/threads/official-forum-rules.74962/

It's not that the thread is 2 weeks old when you can no longer post, it's if the last post was over 2 weeks ago. Please be more careful before you accuse someone of breaking forum rules. I'm sure it was a misunderstanding. For the readers that are curious as to why he posted that, the post Pixelated_PI made was over 2 weeks since I had posted this thread. That's why Unrealiized thought it was a necro-post.
 

betty's oldies

Forum Expert
I'd like to comment a bit on this quote here, because there's a lot of thought in it, and I like the idea of mentioning what's called "macro-management" even though this is a game. I posted part four of my guide and talked a bit about static players and dynamic players, and keeping your money spent in order to handle rushes early does have its upsides. As far as I know from chatting with hyperBravo, he seems to be a solo player, meaning a lot of his time is spent with teammates that he's not familiar with. If you have your coins allocated in your towers, then you can relax and be at ease some for the mobs that your towers can handle; However, on the other hand, if his teammates aren't placing archer towers or necromancer towers, and hyperBravo's suddenly faced with endermites, blazes, or giants, then he himself can't defend against those mobs. Having spent everything in artillery towers, he has no coins to handle air mobs with, and he's left defense a bit open on his end.

I'm keenly aware that if several types of rushes are sent at him at concurrently, there's not much he can do alone. That being said, I still like the idea of having some coins to fall back on if one person decides to send a crazy rush. This type of play-style where nearly all of your resources are spent at once is what I've called static game-play. For more information on this, I recommend reading part four of my guide, or thinking about the differences between having your money allocated beforehand and having your money on hand in order to adapt to situations a bit more keenly. As I say in part four, both approaches have their upside. Having money spent on towers beforehand does limit which mobs you have to worry about in the future. If everyone covers most all areas of defense, there's really not much to worry about. Air mob rushes are a bit of a general exception to this, but if players keep potions on hand, even air mob rushes aren't that difficult to handle. I'm glad hyperBravo posted this, it's given me an opportunity to point things out.

Thanks for posting this comment hyperBravo, it's allowed me to discuss things in good detail. For the players reading this out there, good luck to you in-game, and I hope that this comment was useful to you in some way.
Not a problem, mate. I'll add more as promised.

There's a catch to spending all of your money. The key is that the money is put into actual use (e.g. spending it on useful towers or constantly sending cost-effective mob waves every 15 seconds). If it's put into personal weapons or unnecessary towers, then that's not a good way to dump money. The biggest mistake many make is to build stacked towers, which not only throttles down the efficiency of the first tower, but also wastes all the money spent building and upgrading the new tower. The key theoretically is to coordinate, so that players communicate as to where and who places how many ice/mage towers. If they were to stack, sure, but the damage is negligible against giants that it's not worth stacking mages even then.

Everything has factors affecting it and even more factors affecting the first factors, a chain reaction if you call it. How the money should be spent should be based on enemy tower and unit composition. Do they have air mobs like endermites or blazes? Build a few archer towers. Do they have a giant? Build some necro towers. Do you know if they have potions? Always be prepared since the few seconds you spend defending can make a huge difference (e.g. having to build + defend on demand can delay your defense, putting your team at risk). Don't be afraid to buy a freeze potion since it works against all enemy unit compositions.

There's a catch to the above though. Your opponent can exploit this and if the response isn't executed properly, you can end up wasting money too for over-committing to, for example, anti-air when the other team sends in a ground force against you. In RTS games like SC2, this is a huge mistake. Just a few hundred coins can make a huge difference in making that one extra tower or another mob wave and losing that can be costly. At the same time, you can force your enemy to waste leech shockwaves and money by showing them a particular mob your team will not use for the all-in. Just remember to go a different route once you do and make the real wave count.

The idea is, you don't want to bank too much so that you cannot contribute to defense unless you plan to save for an all-in wave such as a giant or 12 blazes at armageddon. At the same time, @ymbmg's right - I got to agree with you that it's not good to spend way too much to the extent of having an empty wallet. It's therefore okay to have just enough in reserve (at most 2k for 5x5s, 1k for 3x3s) to build emergency towers. Synergy is a key thing too - all teammates make some gold per second. Having some defenders commit to anti-ground and some on reserve or support is theoretically good, but in practice, it all depends on the factors above: how well the team is spending, enemy composition, map, etc.
 
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