Bedrock Punishments for Skins

[wer2wer2]

If you have an invisible skin, you get banned, change your skin, and get to play again. That's all good and I don't want to change that. But when it comes to skins that are pornographic, nationalistic, rasisitic or otherwise not allowed, you should act differently.
Therefore, I propose as penalties:
- Change skin (should be clear)
- Punishment based on the skin, P-hub skin leads to punishment for pornographic content, a Hitler/Wehrmacht skin leads to punishment for spreading nationalistic ideas.

So far, even with a Hitler skin, you are only asked to change the skin (I hope I'm not wrong) and I think this is not enough.

Thanks for reading, I am looking forward to your reactions

Wer1wer1

 

[pekd]

i think pronographic content or nationalistic ideas should be punished with a 30 day ban. it might seem a bit too much but joking about the horrible deaths of 6 million jews and another 74 million people is litteraly the worst. and other than invis skins, making jokes like that is not just banned in a video games but also in real life, it should be obvious that it is not allowed to use hitler skins

 

[_The13thDoctor_]

If you have an invisible skin, you get banned, change your skin, and get to play again. That's all good and I don't want to change that. But when it comes to skins that are pornographic, nationalistic, rasisitic or otherwise not allowed, you should act differently.
Therefore, I propose as penalties:
- Change skin (should be clear)
- Punishment based on the skin, P-hub skin leads to punishment for pornographic content, a Hitler/Wehrmacht skin leads to punishment for spreading nationalistic ideas.

So far, even with a Hitler skin, you are only asked to change the skin (I hope I'm not wrong) and I think this is not enough.

Thanks for reading, I am looking forward to your reactions

Wer1wer1

I disagree, this would complicate the process, as it stands if you use one of these skins the ban is permanent until you change the skin and appeal. Repeat offenses will cause your appeal to be denied and keep you banned for much longer, if not forever. While some of these skins are much much worse than others I still think the system in place is better.

 

[Hoshi]

If you have an invisible skin, you get banned, change your skin, and get to play again.

Unfortunately, not all situations are as simple as this. A lot of the times people with invisible or short skins get banned, they change the skin to something deemed good and eventually when unbanned, change it back.

Some info alongside this: I don’t know if this is still this is still the case, but as far as I know, players who have broken the inappropriate name or skin rule several times get issued a trolling punishment (aka a ban).

I understand and agree with your point saying that an invisible or short skin isn’t as bad of an offense as using a skin or cape that represents you-know-who or anything else inappropriate and I definitely think that using these specific skins should count for a proper punishment. I would personally say one week is plenty of time, however - and any longer is simply not necessary nor good. I’ll give my reasoning below.

i think pronographic content or nationalistic ideas should be punished with a 30 day ban.

Simply said, please no.

I agree with the fact that using these skins is a somewhat heavy offense as it can impact the minds and the feeling of having a safe environment, especially for the younger audience. Spreading these ideas or showing pornographic content is a very bad thing to do. But to issue a 30-day long ban basically means you’re comparing using an inappropriate or generally disallowed skin to people who use illegal clients or have committed several offenses before to spoil other players’ fun.

I simply don’t think that long of a punishment is necessary because of the reason mentioned above and as currently - the system I mentioned before, which I assume is still in place - there will be consequences for a player using these same disallowed skins over and over again, which results in a ban eventually anyway.

I agree with @_The13thDoctor_ about the fact that the current system is fine when it comes to actually getting these players punished properly, but there is still one thing that I must disagree with, or rather simply mention as I don’t see it being discussed often at all. Several players I have reported on Bedrock for invisible skins have managed to get away with changing the skin back to the bannable skin after getting their appeal accepted. I don’t understand how these rulebreakers get away with this. This is, afaik, not limited to the invisible skins category, but it is just an example from personal experience.

I genuinely feel like something needs to be in place for cases like these. It is really unclear whether or not using inappropriate skins or usernames gets you properly banned after doing it several times and when, nor is there a clear set time period or punishment track for it. I think it’d be nice if this was somehow added or clarified in the rules. For instance, if you do it once, you can appeal and have the ban lifted. If you are caught doing it again, 1 week ban with no ability to appeal, and so on.

In conclusion, I think the current system doesn’t need much of a change. Some tweaks here and there would be very welcome but it is not a priority as it’s relatively fine at the moment.

 

[Wildd]

If you have an invisible skin, you get banned, change your skin, and get to play again. That's...

This is an interesting discussion. When it comes to skins I completely agree that some skins are much more extreme and wrong to be wearing than others, however I am unsure about punishments being changed for certain skins.

I think that in a lot of cases I would believe that intent matters. If you are using a skin that is slightly too short or invisible you may not realise that it is punishable, however an explicit skin you clearly know exactly what you are doing.

However, not realising something is against the rules, or having no malicious intent when breaking the rules, does not exempt you from punishment.
There are obviously much worse skins than others, but in a lot of ways it would be a very complicated process if certain skins were punished less than others, and where that line is drawn. (I can say from experience Bedrock skins are a very hazy area between allowed and punishable)

But all in all I would say the system is fine how it is, I don't feel that the rules surrounding skins need to be any more confusing :D

 

[Reesle]

I’ve seen many naked skins (they’re not viewable on my YT because I put them under unlisted). I think those skins should automatically have a 7 day ban.
For the Hitler/nationalistic skin, I think those should have a ban that lasts anywhere between 1-3 days.

 

[wer2wer2]

I understand and agree with your point saying that an invisible or short skin isn’t as bad of an offense as using a skin or cape that represents you-know-who or anything else inappropriate and I definitely think that using these specific skins should count for a proper punishment. I would personally say one week is plenty of time, however - and any longer is simply not necessary nor good. I’ll give my reasoning below.

I honestly don't care how long longer. But especially Hitlerskins are disgusting. In my opinion Cubecraft should show that such skins are not allowed.
Maybe it's not clear what the holocaust was and no I don't want to play a history teacher here (pekd already did that) and also don't want to compare it with any other stuff.
A completely invisible skin will lead to a ban on a Minecraft server.
A Hitlerskin (swastika visible) I can report to the police.

However, not realising something is against the rules, or having no malicious intent when breaking the rules, does not exempt you from punishment.

One is the rule against too short skins, the other is showing the swastika or other National Socialist signs.
And when you join a server with a Hitler or P-hub skin you know what you are doing

But to issue a 30-day long ban basically means you’re comparing using an inappropriate or generally disallowed skin to people who use illegal clients or have committed several offenses before to spoil other players’ fun

I think that pekd and I have a different opinion. Especially in German culture, showing national-socialist stuff is not fun, but a serious border crossing. Besides, these people don't have the skin for educational purposes.

 

[_The13thDoctor_]

I’ve seen many naked skins (they’re not viewable on my YT because I put them under unlisted). I think those skins should automatically have a 7 day ban.
For the Hitler/nationalistic skin, I think those should have a ban that lasts anywhere between 1-3 days.

Wait, so a naked skin should get a worse punishment than an infamous nationalist?

I honestly don't care how long longer. But especially Hitlerskins are disgusting. In my opinion Cubecraft should show that such skins are not allowed.
Maybe it's not clear what the holocaust was and no I don't want to play a history teacher here (pekd already did that) and also don't want to compare it with any other stuff.
A completely invisible skin will lead to a ban on a Minecraft server.
A Hitlerskin (swastika visible) I can report to the police.

You can report them to the police? I’ve never heard of this. I don’t disagree that using those skins is horrible in every way but with y’all going back and forth on what’s more punishable or wrong proves my earlier point. The current method is fine as it’s an equal punishment and they can appeal, but another violation or more results in a permanent ban.

 

[wer2wer2]

One thing to add, Twicht banned a user for briefly showing a Hitlerskin for 30 days. I don't know how much Cubecraft likes to attract streamers. I can't tell how much Twitch likes it when the streamer is on a server where Hitler skins just run through the lobby.

Here's the link to the Twitter post, because I didn't make up the incident

 

[wer2wer2]

You can report them to the police? I’ve never heard of this.

Yes in Germany it is forbidden to show a swastika, for people not from Europe possibly incomprehensible but yes here you can be sentenced for it.

Here 2 people had to pay 5000€ (or almost the same in $) because they had a swastika on their roof. And such judgments are not rare.

 

[_The13thDoctor_]

Yes in Germany it is forbidden to show a swastika, for people not from Europe possibly incomprehensible but yes here you can be sentenced for it.

Here 2 people had to pay 5000€ (or almost the same in $) because they had a swastika on their roof. And such judgments are not rare.

No, I was talking about Minecraft, and reporting them to the police. I’m well aware it’s not allowed irl. I’ve not seen anyone get in trouble for these skins with the police.

 

[wer2wer2]

No, I was talking about Minecraft, and reporting them to the police. I’m well aware it’s not allowed irl. I’ve not seen anyone get in trouble for these skins with the police.

I found nothing fot minecraft skins but buildings and skins in other games.

 

[_The13thDoctor_]

A Hitlerskin (swastika visible) I can report to the police.

I found nothing fot minecraft skins but buildings and skins in other games.

Alright then.

This is an interesting discussion. When it comes to skins I completely agree that some skins are much more extreme and wrong to be wearing than others, however I am unsure about punishments being changed for certain skins.

I think that in a lot of cases I would believe that intent matters. If you are using a skin that is slightly too short or invisible you may not realise that it is punishable, however an explicit skin you clearly know exactly what you are doing.

However, not realising something is against the rules, or having no malicious intent when breaking the rules, does not exempt you from punishment.
There are obviously much worse skins than others, but in a lot of ways it would be a very complicated process if certain skins were punished less than others, and where that line is drawn. (I can say from experience Bedrock skins are a very hazy area between allowed and punishable)

But all in all I would say the system is fine how it is, I don't feel that the rules surrounding skins need to be any more confusing :D

I agree, not knowing the rules is certainly not an excuse for breaking them. Certain grey-area skins I think highlights why it shouldn't change.

It would make the whole punishment system for one specific rule very complex, especially because some skins have to be decided upon by the mod team whether it's allowed or not.

 

[Deleted member 511644]

Even though I understand what you say, I'd have to disagree on this. This could case some confusions, and complications for the Moderation team. I agree the nazi, p-hub, stalin etc skins are something different than short and invisible skins, but at the other side, those skins are giving an unfair advantage, which could lead into unfair stats. Also as mentioned before, if a player gets banned for an inappropriate skin a few times, they will get a Trolling ban instead, which of course stacks as the usual Trolling punishment track (except for the warning)

 

[pekd]

One thing to add, Twicht banned a user for briefly showing a Hitlerskin for 30 days. I don't know how much Cubecraft likes to attract streamers. I can't tell how much Twitch likes it when the streamer is on a server where Hitler skins just run through the lobby.

Here's the link to the Twitter post, because I didn't make up the incident

i think wer2wer2 had a good point here that got completely ignored. also, about the complications, cant you just make a new report reason? im thinking about something like:
1.1 inappropriate skin (7 days ban or something, maybe even more)
1.2 short/invisible skin (warning/1-3 days ban)
both might be skins, but they are not allowed for different reasons. or maybe make an offense for being inappropriate in general, no matter if you are wearing a hitler skin, spamming "heil" in the chat or covering the map with block-swastikas. everyone knows that these are things that you shouldnt do, both irl and ingame. the people who still do it are only 4chan-edgelords or actual nazis. and i dont think you want either of them in the community. and before anyone says "but there alredy is the trolling offense", you need to be caught several times to be banned for it. that is too much, maybe give these players a second chance but not 3 or 4.

No, I was talking about Minecraft, and reporting them to the police. I’m well aware it’s not allowed irl. I’ve not seen anyone get in trouble for these skins with the police.

also about that part, the reason this doesnt happen is because its almost impossible/too much effort to track these players down irl. if you were german and bragged on twitter about how cool you were because you use a hitler skin, you could very much get arrested. and not only punished with having to pay 5000$, but with several years of prison.

 

[wer2wer2]

So I've read all your responses, read up further and now share my findings.

I wrote Twitch and asked what happens when another player runs through the lobby with a Hitlerskin. Unfortunately, I did not receive a clear answer, only that it can lead to penalties and that you should choose a server that you stream with care. If I have to be afraid of getting a twitch ban just because I play on Cubecraft that is no incentive to stream here.

I looked at the Xbox guidelines, after all Bedrock accounts are Xbox accounts. At https://www.xbox.com/en-US/legal/community-standards I. Keep it legal is located:

• Build a club around illegal drug use
• Send messages that encourage underage drinking
• Create activity feed posts that promote criminal gangs
• Upload custom gamerpics that show animal abuse
• Tell other players to “KYS” or commit self-harm
• Use the flag of a terrorist organization as your club’s profile pic

Although it says only profile pictures but a skin should be profile picture like.
Why am I writing here from Xbox, well Cubecraft is an official partner server.

I spoke with a German legal studies student and he confirmed that showing swastikas online in any way, including games is prohibited.

Besides, I know what I'm doing when I run around with a Hitlerskin on Cubecraft. And before I get a longer ban I can do that 3 times? I don't know how fast such skins are reportet but that seems really too long.
And even if someone does that "by mistake", then he can play again after a X-day long ban, never does it again and that's good.

Another note: In Germany you can be punished for having whatsapp stickers on your phone that show national socialist ideas. Therefore, I am always careful to declare my screenshots, which I need for reporting properly. I don't want my Cloud Cubecraft folder to look like a Hitlerskin collection.

Thanks for reading, I hope everything is clear now, I'm happy to answer questions and hope for a rule change.

Wer1wer1

 

[Hoshi]

So I've read all your responses, read up further and now share my findings.

I wrote Twitch and asked what happens when another player runs through the lobby with a Hitlerskin. Unfortunately, I did not receive a clear answer, only that it can lead to penalties and that you should choose a server that you stream with care. If I have to be afraid of getting a twitch ban just because I play on Cubecraft that is no incentive to stream here.

I looked at the Xbox guidelines, after all Bedrock accounts are Xbox accounts. At https://www.xbox.com/en-US/legal/community-standards I. Keep it legal is located:

• Build a club around illegal drug use
• Send messages that encourage underage drinking
• Create activity feed posts that promote criminal gangs
• Upload custom gamerpics that show animal abuse
• Tell other players to “KYS” or commit self-harm
• Use the flag of a terrorist organization as your club’s profile pic

Although it says only profile pictures but a skin should be profile picture like.
Why am I writing here from Xbox, well Cubecraft is an official partner server.

I spoke with a German legal studies student and he confirmed that showing swastikas online in any way, including games is prohibited.

Besides, I know what I'm doing when I run around with a Hitlerskin on Cubecraft. And before I get a longer ban I can do that 3 times? I don't know how fast such skins are reportet but that seems really too long.
And even if someone does that "by mistake", then he can play again after a X-day long ban, never does it again and that's good.

Another note: In Germany you can be punished for having whatsapp stickers on your phone that show national socialist ideas. Therefore, I am always careful to declare my screenshots, which I need for reporting properly. I don't want my Cloud Cubecraft folder to look like a Hitlerskin collection.

Thanks for reading, I hope everything is clear now, I'm happy to answer questions and hope for a rule change.

Wer1wer1

I wish to reply to your message both on the topic of the thread and beyond, but straying off the topic would be a bad idea.

I still want to make my thoughts on Twitch's statement known here in short, as I completely disagree with their way of punishing content creators for unintentionally coming across a player using an inappropriate skin (in this case, a Hitler skin). No matter how 'carefully' you choose your servers, you will ALWAYS risk coming across someone using such a skin. This applies to every single server, not just Cube. With this, Twitch is practically saying "Don't play on Minecraft servers or you might get removed from the platform!". This is definitely NOT the way to handle that. There is no way to prevent players from using the skins in the first place.

Regardless of what Twitch thinks and the whole situation surrounding the platform, I believe CubeCraft doesn't need to do anything extra. Xbox's guidelines require both Xbox themselves and associated instances to follow these rules, which CubeCraft already does: Which includes the last - and most important in this scenario - rule. After all, they punish players for using these skins and they are allowed to choose how they punish these users. They do not need to remove these players off of the network permanently even if they changed their skin back to an allowed one, and it definitely is not CubeCraft's job to report these players to the police or something similar.

- Players using an inappropriate skin get punished.
- If they change their skin, their punishment is lifted.
- If they don't change it, their punishment won't be lifted and they'll be banned until they change it.
- If they change their skin back to another or the same disallowed one and get reported again, they will get banned again and it will start counting towards a heavier punishment in the future.

As I said before, I do agree that perhaps it would be better to punish players who use inappropriate skins (any kind) with a light extra punishment (max three days for first offense) on top of their 'being banned until skin change', so that these players will learn from it. But anything longer than that is way over the top, especially considering these players get punished for the offense if reported anyway, just with a less harsh punishment at first.

Again, I would like to mention that there is no way to prevent players from using these skins in the first place, so you will always risk seeing some.

 

[wer2wer2]

Again, I would like to mention that there is no way to prevent players from using these skins in the first place, so you will always risk seeing some.

That's absolutely right, currently a troll can join 3 times with such a skin before receiving any penalties at all. I also absolutely don't care how long the first time, only it should be made clear that such skin is not fun/troll/accidental.

That Twitch handles this so is also incomprehensible to me. YouTube I have not requested, only from my sensation, YouTube punishes even faster than Twitch.

 

[rlnostalgic]

If you have an invisible skin, you get banned, change your skin, and get to play again. That's all good and I don't want to change that. But when it comes to skins that are pornographic, nationalistic, rasisitic or otherwise not allowed, you should act differently.
Therefore, I propose as penalties:
- Change skin (should be clear)
- Punishment based on the skin, P-hub skin leads to punishment for pornographic content, a Hitler/Wehrmacht skin leads to punishment for spreading nationalistic ideas.

So far, even with a Hitler skin, you are only asked to change the skin (I hope I'm not wrong) and I think this is not enough.

Thanks for reading, I am looking forward to your reactions

Wer1wer1

Look I know this may sound extremely dumb but to change this up I personally think there should be punishments for this however I think it should work more to the extent of change skin-warning 1 warning 2- 1 day ban warning 3-30 day ban warning 4- only aloud to use classic skins. I personally think this would just generally make this idea more relevant. - great suggestion

 

[ZeinMama]

People really use invisible skins to make troll or win skywars , bedwars game and that actually not good and if anyone see someone use invisible skins should report and recording video so u have proof and he get banned