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Matriox

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Hello,

Today when i was playing layer spleef, without any surprise i saw all the bugs i saw last time i was playing layer spleef, i reported all of them last time. These are game changing bugs that make the game unfair, for example; some people lagging back(happens when jump boost is over), and not being able to get powerup's because they just fall to the next layer. it makes the game looks bad because it doesn't work basically, and it also makes cube look bad; their content doesn't work.

I suggest Cubecraft don't feature a game until the bugs in that game are fixed for the next time they are featured. It makes no sense to purposefully release a game that has bugs in it.

I really dont think this will be a big ask, it may actually encourage cubecraft to fix there featured games bugs because people will ask why something hasn't been featured for a long time and cube can realise, well they never fixed any bugs for months in that game so maybe they might actually fix them... probably not but either way why would a game be released if it's all bugged with known bugs when it's optional to release a game with less or no bugs instead?

If you agree vote agree :agree: or vote disagree :disagree:, and maybe tell me why if you want idm
 

xHappyMood

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I do agree that cube should stop considering featured game bugs (and bugs in general) as low priority, but I don't think they should stop featuring games till all bugs r fixed. Knowing cube they will never or maybe in 156431564654 years finally fix one bug, and i wouldn't want to wait with playing a game for that long tbh it already takes too long cuz sg and ld r always featured
 
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KLsz

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A thing is that, actually it is very difficult for them to know every bugs they probably have.
I'm not saying their program is stable and not glitchy; I'm not saying a programmer should satisfied with their result, but it is really hard sometimes to test out all the bugs.
Some bugs are just beyond imagination :D

I konw it is easier said than done, but I really think they should make their program a little bit more stable.
 

Matriox

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A thing is that, actually it is very difficult for them to know every bugs they probably have.
I'm not saying their program is stable and not glitchy; I'm not saying a programmer should satisfied with their result, but it is really hard sometimes to test out all the bugs.
Some bugs are just beyond imagination :D

I konw it is easier said than done, but I really think they should make their program a little bit more stable.
The community report bugs and its added to their bug tracker so they're always aware of all known bugs for each game
 

Keanu

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Featured games are, compared to our other main games, very low priority. While I can understand it is frustrating the game isn't working as it should, we are unfortunately rather tight on dev time since we have quite a few projects in the workings plus when they are looking at bugs, we prefer them to investigate medium/large bugs in big games over larger bugs in the more impopular (=featured) games since those affect more players, and just..removing all the featured games until we come up with a solution for those issues most likely would mean the games have to be removed for weeks if not months.

Again, I do understand the frustration and I am sorry for the inconvenience, but I'm afraid there isn't a solution for these issues atm.
 

Matriox

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"frustrated" is an overused word by the cc staff yet it directly says what we feel, frustrated. Doesn't using the word everyday describe how the Cubecraft community feel? why doesn't Cubecraft get that the community's opinions matter, we don't make suggestions or give feedback for nothing, we make feedback because Cubecraft have places that need improving, whether it be bugs, general server stuff or new content.

I see most of Cubecrafts problems in two areas; Sentinel and Bugs. Both of these cause the most frustration among the Cubecraft community, these are ones that come up in staff help and support everyday and they are things the community really want improved.

Yes bugs have improved in the sense more moderators have the ability to look at bug reports and accept them but how does that mean anything to the cubecraft community, bugs are still as slow as ever to get fixed? without devs to actually fix the bugs that you put in your bug tracker there is no need to put them there. These extra moderators are just an excuse and cover for what really goes on behind the scenes; nothing. You may as well go back to your old system of 2 people doing bug reports because its changed nothing besides the response time of a bug report, it does in no way change how fast bugs get handled.

I mean i have had bugs reported from the TD update from months and months ago that have not been fixed; which are very much game changing. And at first you act as tho its gonna be fixed ASAP literally the word "ASAP" is constantly being used, yet what does ASAP actually mean to Cubecraft? it means as soon as we get enough complaints or get enough people spamming us to fix it?

I mean i reported most of these bugs a long long time ago under the instruction of the -then- bug team, and i was happy to hear they would be looked at asap and sure enough i wasn't disappointed, they were looked at immediately by the 2 person bug team, it stops there tho, the dev team wanted nothing to do with it, the td update dev had already moved onto his next project. they haven't even been touched on yet. And i started a conversation about the Top players in td still being removed, and apparently it was removed because it was causing a win bug; "The top players not being there is intended I'm fairly sure - we figured out that that was the issue that was causing the win looping thing in TD, so we removed it temporarily until a proper fix is out.", now "temporarily" this messages dates back to the 04/02/2021, the definition of temporarily; "for a limited period of time; not permanently.", did you not fix the td looping bug, or just don't want to take the little amount of time to re-add the top players?

Now we as the Tower Defence community checked up on it a while later because we took "ASAP" and "temporarily" literally, little did we know it was Cubes "ASAP" not the literal ASAP, here is us checking up on it; "Was the TD Top players bug forgotten about?" and our answer; "nah not forgotten - will likely be fixed once [developer] is available, but he is not as he has another project to be focusing on :]" - 10/03/2021, well a month seems good, right? nah. here we are in september without it even looked at, and it's not like we haven't pushed on it being looked at, but you know we are the community of Cubecraft Games what's the use in listening to us!

I have a large amount of examples as long as this about bugs but i don't want to bore you with those..

I also have seen a large amount of Sentinel complaints in my time here at the Cubecraft community, I understand an anti-cheat cant be perfect, don't get me wrong -and Cubecraft do an excellent job at showing an anti cheat cant be perfect- but its not an excuse to treat players with absolut disrespect when they are appealing, telling them to be "patient" at what sometimes is a 2 week response time or even no response time is just absurd

Most players who appeal just genuinely want to get unbanned , but Cubecraft have been thought to treat everyone as a hacker rather than as a victim of a far to often false ban by "Sentinel".

Yet you assure the person to "calm down" and explain everything that happened in there appeal and then go on with your day.. shame on Cubecraft to treat people like that who have been false banned by your anticheat for your own mistake. I can understand you do unban people from false sentinel bans but it doesn't take from the fact that the process is confusing and overall work for the victim of your systems failure to do its job. Banning hackers is an excellent job done by Cubecraft i rarely see hackers anymore, unfortunately as a result of that i see far too many people being banned by sentinel unfairly and being treated as tho its normal and they should just go through there appeal site and if that doesn't work they should email the sentinel team. Why email? do young bedrock players really have email or know how to email or come forward to a discord server or a forums to say they've been banned? i doubt it to be honest. at least keep it to your own forums and report sight rather than bringing an email into it. Maybe its easier but its more work and harder to keep track of for people who don't understand or are younger. i doubt most people banned even understand why they've been banned and just take it..

There is a lot of things the community would love to see improved on Cubecraft games - things we've been asking for for a very long time - but unfortunately these community requests must be put on hold while your own "internal" projects proceed as normal.. what we need most right now is a good community manager, one who interacts with the community they manage, yk like younisco would have.

Hopefully some day there may even be a few community managers because i see no other solution for the community being listened to. Cubecrafts biggest flaw is not using what is most important and that is there community.
 

Matriox

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I do agree that cube should stop considering featured game bugs (and bugs in general) as low priority, but I don't think they should stop featuring games till all bugs r fixed. Knowing cube they will never or maybe in 156431564654 years finally fix one bug, and i wouldn't want to wait with playing a game for that long tbh it already takes too long cuz sg and ld r always featured
Yes and that's the main meaning of the thread, to fix bugs faster and having the aim to have the bugs of a game fixed by the next time the game comes out should be a good and do-able goal for cubecraft
 
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Buckyy

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"frustrated" is an overused word by the cc staff yet it directly says what we feel, frustrated. Doesn't using the word everyday describe how the Cubecraft community feel? why doesn't Cubecraft get that the community's opinions matter, we don't make suggestions or give feedback for nothing, we make feedback because Cubecraft have places that need improving, whether it be bugs, general server stuff or new content.

I see most of Cubecrafts problems in two areas; Sentinel and Bugs. Both of these cause the most frustration among the Cubecraft community, these are ones that come up in staff help and support everyday and they are things the community really want improved.

Yes bugs have improved in the sense more moderators have the ability to look at bug reports and accept them but how does that mean anything to the cubecraft community, bugs are still as slow as ever to get fixed? without devs to actually fix the bugs that you put in your bug tracker there is no need to put them there. These extra moderators are just an excuse and cover for what really goes on behind the scenes; nothing. You may as well go back to your old system of 2 people doing bug reports because its changed nothing besides the response time of a bug report, it does in no way change how fast bugs get handled.

I mean i have had bugs reported from the TD update from months and months ago that have not been fixed; which are very much game changing. And at first you act as tho its gonna be fixed ASAP literally the word "ASAP" is constantly being used, yet what does ASAP actually mean to Cubecraft? it means as soon as we get enough complaints or get enough people spamming us to fix it?

I mean i reported most of these bugs a long long time ago under the instruction of the -then- bug team, and i was happy to hear they would be looked at asap and sure enough i wasn't disappointed, they were looked at immediately by the 2 person bug team, it stops there tho, the dev team wanted nothing to do with it, the td update dev had already moved onto his next project. they haven't even been touched on yet. And i started a conversation about the Top players in td still being removed, and apparently it was removed because it was causing a win bug; "The top players not being there is intended I'm fairly sure - we figured out that that was the issue that was causing the win looping thing in TD, so we removed it temporarily until a proper fix is out.", now "temporarily" this messages dates back to the 04/02/2021, the definition of temporarily; "for a limited period of time; not permanently.", did you not fix the td looping bug, or just don't want to take the little amount of time to re-add the top players?

Now we as the Tower Defence community checked up on it a while later because we took "ASAP" and "temporarily" literally, little did we know it was Cubes "ASAP" not the literal ASAP, here is us checking up on it; "Was the TD Top players bug forgotten about?" and our answer; "nah not forgotten - will likely be fixed once [developer] is available, but he is not as he has another project to be focusing on :]" - 10/03/2021, well a month seems good, right? nah. here we are in september without it even looked at, and it's not like we haven't pushed on it being looked at, but you know we are the community of Cubecraft Games what's the use in listening to us!

I have a large amount of examples as long as this about bugs but i don't want to bore you with those..

I also have seen a large amount of Sentinel complaints in my time here at the Cubecraft community, I understand an anti-cheat cant be perfect, don't get me wrong -and Cubecraft do an excellent job at showing an anti cheat cant be perfect- but its not an excuse to treat players with absolut disrespect when they are appealing, telling them to be "patient" at what sometimes is a 2 week response time or even no response time is just absurd

Most players who appeal just genuinely want to get unbanned , but Cubecraft have been thought to treat everyone as a hacker rather than as a victim of a far to often false ban by "Sentinel".

Yet you assure the person to "calm down" and explain everything that happened in there appeal and then go on with your day.. shame on Cubecraft to treat people like that who have been false banned by your anticheat for your own mistake. I can understand you do unban people from false sentinel bans but it doesn't take from the fact that the process is confusing and overall work for the victim of your systems failure to do its job. Banning hackers is an excellent job done by Cubecraft i rarely see hackers anymore, unfortunately as a result of that i see far too many people being banned by sentinel unfairly and being treated as tho its normal and they should just go through there appeal site and if that doesn't work they should email the sentinel team. Why email? do young bedrock players really have email or know how to email or come forward to a discord server or a forums to say they've been banned? i doubt it to be honest. at least keep it to your own forums and report sight rather than bringing an email into it. Maybe its easier but its more work and harder to keep track of for people who don't understand or are younger. i doubt most people banned even understand why they've been banned and just take it..

There is a lot of things the community would love to see improved on Cubecraft games - things we've been asking for for a very long time - but unfortunately these community requests must be put on hold while your own "internal" projects proceed as normal.. what we need most right now is a good community manager, one who interacts with the community they manage, yk like younisco would have.

Hopefully some day there may even be a few community managers because i see no other solution for the community being listened to. Cubecrafts biggest flaw is not using what is most important and that is there community.
The Bible 📖

I agree with you, the suggestions are to give feedback and that feedback should be listened to and provide what the community wants.
 

Story

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Hey Matriox, I want to discuss your thread but mainly the issue of bugs/suggestions at the moment in a clear and honest way.


We've been working on the bugs issue for a bit of time now and I want to explain specifically what changes we've made and why. The problem has definitely not been fixed and we've never pretended that it has been. Your claims are fully valid and we have far too many bugs logged but not fixed.

Bugs/suggestions are caused by a systematic issue in our logging & development process, making systematic changes is very difficult as they rely heavily on other factors in order to work. This is why we've made smaller changes such as suggestions revamp & bugs logging. They were never intended to fix the issue in one fell swoop because that's not possible.

The moderation team being heavily involved in bug logging was an early change made to prepare for when the problem does get fixed, we want to ensure we have 90% of our bugs logged and documented for when the system changes are fixed, to ensure that we can then start gliding through them. The suggestions revamp was an attempt at amending the system using some community suggestions.

I think it's very important to remember that we made these changes because we want to fix the problem, every member of the server team was once a community member just like you. You may see a fix as not working and think we are masking the problem when in fact it is our attempt at fixing part of it and monitoring the results. We understand how much it matters. It's also important to remember that we are not perfect, we don't just immediately know how to fix problems. We're attempting to figure it out and there's a lot of things we are trying but it takes a while to get results with experiments. The suggestions revamp didn't have the impact we wanted and that's okay, it still helped and as long as we keep going forward that's what matters.

Fixing an issue like this takes time, it's never as simple as drag & dropping a developer onto bugs, there are timelines, deadlines & plans months in advance. We unfortunately can't just tear it all down immediately, there is a lot more to a network than simply bugs/suggestions. We have to fix the systematic issues without affecting what makes CubeCraft successful in the first place.

One thing I can promise you is that we care about this issue & actively discuss it often. We are trying to fix it as best as we can, but we are still learning.

As for the suggestion itself, in the current system we can only fix a handful of bugs, thus we have to monitor which ones are the biggest priority, we use player impact to make this decision and that's why featured game bugs do not get fixed as often. Fixing more bugs than we currently do in the future will allow us to put more effort into the quality of featured games.


I hope this helped everyone understand a bit more, I'm happy to answer any further questions you have which is why I won't lock the thread until I feel all points have been acknowledged.
 

xHappyMood

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Well first of all im very proud of you for not mentioning an EggWars update from over a year ago when someone said you don't listen to the community
You may see a fix as not working and think we are masking the problem when in fact it is our attempt at fixing part of it and monitoring the results.
It's logical we see it like that if you present it like a step forward in handling bugs without explaining that it won't fix it yet. If you tell us you're making a step forward in dealing with bugs and there are no results it's only logical for us to assume that you're hiding the problem.
The suggestions revamp didn't have the impact we wanted
I'm sorry but you can't possible expect the suggestions revamp to work if you take months to reply to a suggestion. There are still suggestion that r forwarded since march, so 6 months ago. If you want something like this to work you should at least make sure you answer within a reasonable amount of time, otherwise it obviously won't have an effect.
One thing I can promise you is that we care about this issue
Once again I'm sorry, but that isn't visible to us. Over the past few months iirc the only thing that has changed is more moderators handling bug reports. I'll believe you when you care about it, but as probably nothing will change in the coming months either, people will obviously start making threads about this again, as there's just not enough happening imo.
 

KLsz

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I'm sorry to interrupt into your conversation, but I do think I want to explain something from my own perspective.

I'm a proofreader in CubeCraft's Translation Team. Well, I can't say I know a lot of people in Team CubeCraft, and I can't say I understand thoroughly about how Team CubeCraft works, but I did get a chance to take a glimpse inside how the very core of Team CubeCraft is like.

It is not easy to work with a huge team of people. It is not like as if you are working alone, that you can make a decision when you want to. Team CubeCraft is huge. You need time to draw up a plan, to discuss a change, and to make it fit inside the current system. All of these things need time, the very time you were originally going to to spend on actual works, that are now wasted on discussions.
I do understand that you are not satisfied with the way CubeCraft is treating bugs currently, and, yes, there are indeed ways to make it better, but all of those things are not going to happen very fast.

From my personal experience with the Admin Team, I can say for sure that the Admin Team really cares about how us players feel and really want to make CubeCraft a better place for us. They are changing things little by little, but I believe they will eventually be able to provide us with a satisfactory result. Just give them more time, ya?

:cube_light:
 

Story

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It's logical we see it like that if you present it like a step forward in handling bugs without explaining that it won't fix it yet. If you tell us you're making a step forward in dealing with bugs and there are no results it's only logical for us to assume that you're hiding the problem.
For someone who is searching for negative reasoning then yes that's the only logical conclusion. But if we want to assume good faith in most scenarios then it's not.

I'm sorry but you can't possible expect the suggestions revamp to work if you take months to reply to a suggestion. There are still suggestion that r forwarded since march, so 6 months ago. If you want something like this to work you should at least make sure you answer within a reasonable amount of time, otherwise it obviously won't have an effect.
Suggestions aren't our main duty, our intention with the revamp was:
  • To make it more clear which suggestions the community supported the most. (helpful for when we actually get around to implementing them.)
  • To increase community engagement in those suggestions by guaranteeing a response to forwarded suggestions.
  • To reduce the amount of suggestions we have to deal with.
Most of these I felt have went well, what didn't go well was that we didn't anticipate this many suggestions still getting through. Again we believed if there wasn't too many then we'd be able to manage it. But it's all a learning experience for us.

Responding suggestions from the top of your head whilst still being accurate requires quite a lot of knowledge of all networks, platforms and the internals of the team, we also put a larger focus on being accurate so we do quite a bit of research & discussion before responding to a suggestion. Our new server team members will hopefully become more knowledgeable and be able to deal with suggestions quicker over time, solving part of the first problem.

Once again I'm sorry, but that isn't visible to us. Over the past few months iirc the only thing that has changed is more moderators handling bug reports. I'll believe you when you care about it, but as probably nothing will change in the coming months either, people will obviously start making threads about this again, as there's just not enough happening imo.
As I say, it's not as quick as you think to fix, we also have multiple responsibilities that we need to continue with as well. We've been working on this for quite a while and do actively discuss it. It's not going to go any faster, however we can try & communicate more about what we are doing.
 
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Ge1ster

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I'm a proofreader in CubeCraft's Translation Team. Well, I can't say I know a lot of people in Team CubeCraft, and I can't say I understand thoroughly about how Team CubeCraft works, but I did get a chance to take a glimpse inside how the very core of Team CubeCraft is like
How, exactly? TT members have nothing to do with the staff team, and surely not "the very core" of it. Even regular translator staff don't get to do that

From my personal experience with the Admin Team, I can say for sure that the Admin Team really cares about how us players feel
After the latest events in TT I know for a fact that this is incorrect lol, you'll learn in time too I guess. Not purposely trying to be a pessimist here, but that's what we've been made into in TT
 

KLsz

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How, exactly? TT members have nothing to do with the staff team, and surely not "the very core" of it. Even regular translator staff don't get to do that
I think I did happen to have exchanged ideas with quite a few people about the „latest event in tt”. That's what I mean by taking a glimpse I guess :(

After the latest events in TT I know for a fact that this is incorrect lol, you'll learn in time too I guess. Not purposely trying to be a pessimist here, but that's what we've been made into in TT
You are absolutely right about that. They do have a lot of things to care about other than our players' enjoyment, but this is our customers. I believe I should pay some care and attention to my wording when talking to the customers I guess?

It is not easy to work with a huge team of people. It is not like as if you are working alone, that you can make a decision when you want to. Team CubeCraft is huge. You need time to draw up a plan, to discuss a change, and to make it fit inside the current system. All of these things need time, the very time you were originally going to to spend on actual works, that are now wasted on discussions.
By the way, can you feel my pain writing this paragraph?
 

Ge1ster

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You are absolutely right about that. They do have a lot of things to care about other than our players' enjoyment, but this is our customers. I believe I should pay some care and attention to my wording when talking to the customers I guess?
What? What customer? If anything, THAT could've been worded better xD

It is not like as if you are working alone, that you can make a decision when you want to.
The admin team would like to disagree
 
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KLsz

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Since it's internal TT change I can't say publicly but it's really easy to find out. Consider the current changes being made in TT
I mean did you quote the wrong sentence? I indeed enjoy more when I'm working on my own project outside CubeCraft.
 

xHappyMood

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For someone who is searching for negative reasoning then yes that's the only logical conclusion.
How is that negative reasoning? I get you can’t just wave your magic wand and instantly all bugs are fixed but if you say “this is a step forward in fixing bugs” and the amount of bugs being fixed stays the same because it’s actually only a step forward in the bug reports being handled, then that’s just very unclear communication. A step forward in dealing with bugs will make us think the bugs will be dealt with in a better way and if that is not the result then that is for anyone positive or negative the only conclusion…
To make it more clear which suggestions the community supported the most.
Okay I agree, you did succeed on that.
To increase community engagement in those suggestions by guaranteeing a response to forwarded suggestions.
Responding suggestions from the top of your head whilst still being accurate requires quite a lot of knowledge of all networks, platforms and the internals of the team, we also put a larger focus on being accurate so we do quite a bit of research & discussion before responding to a suggestion.
I get that you can’t give an answer to a suggestion without thinking about it for some time, but it has been 6 months now and I would think that’s enough time to get more people involved in responding to the suggestions (idk what you do before answering tho so correct me if im wrong)
To reduce the amount of suggestions we have to deal with.
I think you actually got more suggestions to answer cuz before you could just ignore them xD
Again we believed if there wasn't too many then we'd be able to manage it.
I’m very sure you could but apparently there are just too many for the 3 (i think?) people that handle them now to manage, so i’d say get more people involved in it :banter: (i know it’s probably not that easy or you’d have done it already xD)
As I say, it's not as quick as you think to fix, we also have multiple responsibilities that we need to continue with as well. We've been working on this for quite a while and do actively discuss it. It's not going to go any faster, however we can try & communicate more about what we are doing.
I know it’s not smth you can fix by like waving your magic wand (not saying you can’t try :banter:) but communicating about it would definitely be a great improvement. Imo it doesn’t matter how you do it, be it by communicating about it till you solve it or by immediately solving it (we can all have dreams 😔) the point is that we just need some way to actually see something is happening instead of having to make a thread every few months again to finally hear smth about it.

Then smth kinda different, am i right in thinking it’s still you, youn and camezonda who handle the forwarded suggestions? If yes, may I know why the community manager isn’t involved in handling suggestions (which are what the community - which is what they’re supposed to manage - wants)?
And why in general the communication with the community has pretty much stopped since it isnt youn anymore?
 

KLsz

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Since it's internal TT change I can't say publicly but it's really easy to find out. Consider the current changes being made in TT
Or you mean that the current tt is like as if it is somebody's own thing that she can decide whatever she wants?
 
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