Web Changes to the "No pointless threads" rule

[KitsuneToru]

Currently, this is the rule on pointless threads:

It's a good rule for what it covers. However that's exactly what I'm proposing is changed - what this rule covers.
Looking on the forums, there are so many people who just post useless messages that aren't specifically against this rule (or at least aren't enforced as such)
I'm talking about posts that purely contain nothing but things like "I agree good suggestion" and "add a poll". While I'm totally fine and it's a totally fair thing to say something like that alongside a reply to a thread, there are far too many people who go around on threads saying this sort of stuff and literally nothing else. They add nothing else to the suggestion and just get in the middle of all the useful feedback and make it hard to read through. It also enables them to just farm likes off it as these are useless posts as people will just like them despite the fact that they are completely pointless posts.

It's possible that this is covered by the existing rule, but the forum rules are so unclear that it's hard to tell, but it's definitely not enforced this way.


And no, before people ask I am NOT adding a poll. Stop asking.

 

[Lyriie]

I agree. The difference between a pointless post and a normal post is not always clear, especially for new members who may not know how the forums works.

 

[Levi_the_pro]

Add a poll, But why would you make this rule what's the point who cares if someone posts a useless message

 

[KitsuneToru]

Add a poll, But why would you make this rule what's the point who cares if someone posts a useless message

While I'm totally fine and it's a totally fair thing to say something like that alongside a reply to a thread, there are far too many people who go around on threads saying this sort of stuff and literally nothing else. They add nothing else to the suggestion and just get in the middle of all the useful feedback and make it hard to read through. It also enables them to just farm likes off it as these are useless posts as people will just like them despite the fact that they are completely pointless posts.

 

[Jukaido]

What’s the point of making a thread without a poll? Sound kinda selfish and full of yourself. Well I disagree with this idea anyways and think it’s pretty useless.

 

[KitsuneToru]

What’s the point of making a thread without a poll? Sound kinda selfish and full of yourself. Well I disagree with this idea anyways and think it’s pretty useless.

Whether you should or shouldn't have a poll on a thread is completely irrelevant. What I'm saying is that it should be punishable for people to constantly go around making posts that add absolutely nothing and just say things like "Add a poll" and literally nothing else. As I said in my thread, these posts add nothing to the discussion and just make reading through the replies more annoying as they just get in the way.

 

[wxzzrd]

Dude what’s wrong with saying u agree I don’t agree at all -1111

 

[404Owl]

Dude what’s wrong with saying u agree I don’t agree at all -1111

Exactly. You dont need a long post to say “i agree.”

I do agree that the rules should be clearer, but they should not making posts like”i agree” and “add a poll” banable. They’re not at all useless. Sometimes people genuinely forget to add a poll, or forgot to add a voting option.
-1

 

[ItzEnd3r]

I Agree +1
You should add a poll

 

[wxzzrd]

Exactly. You dont need a long post to say “i agree.”

I do agree that the rules should be clearer, but they should not making posts like”i agree” and “add a poll” banable. They’re not at all useless. Sometimes people genuinely forget to add a poll, or forgot to add a voting option.
-1

Yeah ecxatly

 

[BringMeTheHorizon ♠]

Exactly. You dont need a long post to say “i agree.”

As far as I can tell from this post (I'm not active on the forums anymore and check back in very little to see if anyone mentioned me or messaged me):

There are some people who only specifically say "I agree" while adding absolutely nothing to the post. That can make it harder to go through the thread's replies. Saying "I agree" while adding absolutely nothing to the topic of conversation, the discussion and the post itself is absolutely useless and almost makes it seem like you're trying to farm likes.



You said it yourself. You don't need a long post to say "i agree." In fact you don't need any posts. Give the thread a like.

Sometimes people genuinely forget to add a poll, or forgot to add a voting option.

Well, here's the thing. When the thread is JAM PACKED with people saying "Add a poll!!!!!!", ESPECIALLY AFTER THE OP ALREADY SAID THIS:

And no, before people ask I am NOT adding a poll. Stop asking.

I think it's safe to say that the OP has not genuinely forgotten to add a poll. Would love to be proven wrong though.

Nearly 3/4th of all replies seem to be "Add a poll", "you should add a poll". I think one post is enough for that, think not?

Anyways @KitsuneToru I think you should add a poll.

 

[FnigePython]

And no, before people ask I am NOT adding a poll. Stop asking.

if you want the mods to listen, your probably gonna need a poll

 

[_JoSee]

Currently, this is the rule on pointless threads:
View attachment 177348
It's a good rule for what it covers. However that's exactly what I'm proposing is changed - what this rule covers.
Looking on the forums, there are so many people who just post useless messages that aren't specifically against this rule (or at least aren't enforced as such)
I'm talking about posts that purely contain nothing but things like "I agree good suggestion" and "add a poll". While I'm totally fine and it's a totally fair thing to say something like that alongside a reply to a thread, there are far too many people who go around on threads saying this sort of stuff and literally nothing else. They add nothing else to the suggestion and just get in the middle of all the useful feedback and make it hard to read through. It also enables them to just farm likes off it as these are useless posts as people will just like them despite the fact that they are completely pointless posts.

It's possible that this is covered by the existing rule, but the forum rules are so unclear that it's hard to tell, but it's definitely not enforced this way.


And no, before people ask I am NOT adding a poll. Stop asking.

Great idea I agree with you!

 

[Technosword]

if you want the mods to listen, your probably gonna need a poll

This is pretty true, it’s easier and actually more likely for the staff team to add suggestions if they have polls. No one wants to go through 2-3 pages of yes or no and tally up votes. Sure, having a poll is annoying when people vote no and don’t add but it also lets more people vote yes.

 

[KitsuneToru]

This is pretty true, it’s easier and actually more likely for the staff team to add suggestions if they have polls. No one wants to go through 2-3 pages of yes or no and tally up votes. Sure, having a poll is annoying when people vote no and don’t add but it also lets more people vote yes.

If staff are properly reading suggestions then they should be reading all 2-3 pages or however much to see all the arguments and debates so that they can weigh up the advantages and disadvantages of the suggestion for themselves. If they are just reading the inital post and poll and not continuing on, then they won't be able to get a full grasp of any positives or especially negatives that someone might have brought up later.

Also there already is a "vote yes" button without a poll. It's called the like button.

 

[Flasser]

If staff are properly reading suggestions then they should be reading all 2-3 pages or however much to see all the arguments and debates so that they can weigh up the advantages and disadvantages of the suggestion for themselves. If they are just reading the inital post and poll and not continuing on, then they won't be able to get a full grasp of any positives or especially negatives that someone might have brought up later.

Also there already is a "vote yes" button without a poll. It's called the like button.

Do you know how many posts is posted every day on the forums? There is like a bajillion of them, and i think the staff team has more to do than look at posts all day all long.

 

[betty's oldies]

Some of the rules also need to be updated and/or rewritten. Wouldn't this essentially be the same as the message/like farming rule?

If staff are properly reading suggestions then they should be reading all 2-3 pages or however much to see all the arguments and debates so that they can weigh up the advantages and disadvantages of the suggestion for themselves. If they are just reading the inital post and poll and not continuing on, then they won't be able to get a full grasp of any positives or especially negatives that someone might have brought up later.

Also there already is a "vote yes" button without a poll. It's called the like button.

But right now there's no clear way of a "vote no" button. On Hypixel, this was clear with the disagree/dislike button (clearly possible to add since both Hypixel's and CubeCraft's forums use XenForo). Connotatively, we'd also use the funny button on the former. For the latter, right now the closest indicator is the anger button, but that's not an explicit "vote no" button.

This is the problem using the like system instead of a poll since you won't have a better grasp as to who agrees or not. How would you tell if people voted no? A lack of likes could possibly mean that people didn't see the thread, saw it but ignored it, read it but have no way of explicitly saying no (other than posting, but tallying up posts by hand is time consuming), or other reasons.

There's more to suggestions. I believe right now all it takes is one staff member to stumble across the suggestion and, if he/she thinks it's good (community feedback not required), simply escalates it and calls it a day. Some of the really good suggestions with a lot of feedback get thrown out because of this.

Ironically one of my own suggestions was accepted (despite being rejected and shelved for several months even with a staff reply containing an ad hominem), only to be put on the Discord server's rules just weeks ago.

 

[KitsuneToru]

But right now there's no clear way of a "vote no" button. On Hypixel, this was clear with the disagree/dislike button (clearly possible to add since both Hypixel's and CubeCraft's forums use XenForo). Connotatively, we'd also use the funny button on the former. For the latter, right now the closest indicator is the anger button, but that's not an explicit "vote no" button.

This is the problem using the like system instead of a poll since you won't have a better grasp as to who agrees or not. How would you tell if people voted no? A lack of likes could possibly mean that people didn't see the thread, saw it but ignored it, read it but have no way of explicitly saying no (other than posting, but tallying up posts by hand is time consuming), or other reasons.

There is a clear way to vote no and that's to either reply with why you disagree or if someone else has already said why, you can like their post. The number of votes yes or no will always be a horrible way to calculate suggestions anyway since the forums is not proportional of the server whatsoever, I don't get why staff and players think it's always 100% accurate of if a suggestion should be implemented.

There's more to suggestions. I believe right now all it takes is one staff member to stumble across the suggestion and, if he/she thinks it's good (community feedback not required), simply escalates it and calls it a day. Some of the really good suggestions with a lot of feedback get thrown out because of this.

Ironically one of my own suggestions was accepted (despite being rejected and shelved for several months even with a staff reply containing an ad hominem), only to be put on the Discord server's rules just weeks ago.

This is something I want to address at a later date but yeah you're correct. The escalation system is broken, the main way of getting a thread escalted is to have a member of the admin team stumble upon it by pure chance - most other suggestions get completely ignored. The #looking-for-party channel on the Discord is a good example of it. Despite countless threads in the past, lots with polls showing strong support, it was mostly ignored until a member of the admin team happened to see one thread about it and think "that looks cool". (P.S. They didn't actually re-visit your suggestion for adding the ToS rule to Discord - that was only added due to the recent discovery of multiple members of staff who were found to be violating the ToS.)

 

[betty's oldies]

There is a clear way to vote no and that's to either reply with why you disagree or if someone else has already said why, you can like their post. The number of votes yes or no will always be a horrible way to calculate suggestions anyway since the forums is not proportional of the server whatsoever, I don't get why staff and players think it's always 100% accurate of if a suggestion should be implemented.

Perhaps it's easy to read, but then skewed results are inherently a problem with a poll in these forums.

This is something I want to address at a later date but yeah you're correct. The escalation system is broken, the main way of getting a thread escalted is to have a member of the admin team stumble upon it by pure chance - most other suggestions get completely ignored. The #looking-for-party channel on the Discord is a good example of it. Despite countless threads in the past, lots with polls showing strong support, it was mostly ignored until a member of the admin team happened to see one thread about it and think "that looks cool". (P.S. They didn't actually re-visit your suggestion for adding the ToS rule to Discord - that was only added due to the recent discovery of multiple members of staff who were found to be violating the ToS.)

I knew they wouldn't revisit it, but I find it very ironic that my own suggestion was inadvertently implemented even though it was thrown in the garbage! (That's not the first time one of my things in this community led to reality; I proved to be prophetic about LanceDaniels's unworthiness when he was network banned earlier this year, yet I was banned 3 years ago in May for exclaiming that he wasn't worthy of a promotion.)

The suggestion system is partially what made me lose hope in the server in the first place years ago. Suggestions were going unheard even with popular demand and things that people didn't want were added. As my master would say almost 8 years ago, he said to "remember the reasons why we quit (a place we used to be around a lot)," and this is a good reason many people would quit.

 

[Katsia Stray]

Okay in order. This message is going to get so much hate...but at least I'm clearing up my points about it

Currently, this is the rule on pointless threads:
View attachment 177348
It's a good rule for what it covers. However that's exactly what I'm proposing is changed - what this rule covers.
Looking on the forums, there are so many people who just post useless messages that aren't specifically against this rule (or at least aren't enforced as such)
I'm talking about posts that purely contain nothing but things like "I agree good suggestion" and "add a poll". While I'm totally fine and it's a totally fair thing to say something like that alongside a reply to a thread, there are far too many people who go around on threads saying this sort of stuff and literally nothing else. They add nothing else to the suggestion and just get in the middle of all the useful feedback and make it hard to read through. It also enables them to just farm likes off it as these are useless posts as people will just like them despite the fact that they are completely pointless posts.

It's possible that this is covered by the existing rule, but the forum rules are so unclear that it's hard to tell, but it's definitely not enforced this way.


And no, before people ask I am NOT adding a poll. Stop asking.

Yes, we need this because I swear people just bot on random messages, not only are they farming likes they are also farming their message count

Add a poll, But why would you make this rule what's the point who cares if someone posts a useless message

It's frustrating to read, even if it's small and you can skip past it, it's so frustrating to see someone say they agree or disagree without any context at all.

What’s the point of making a thread without a poll? Sound kinda selfish and full of yourself. Well I disagree with this idea anyways and think it’s pretty useless.

Because people tend to vote no and dont explain why they disagree, so it's better for people to properly comment it. Also not adding some feature on the forums to your message is NOT considered "selfish" thank you very much.

Whether you should or shouldn't have a poll on a thread is completely irrelevant. What I'm saying is that it should be punishable for people to constantly go around making posts that add absolutely nothing and just say things like "Add a poll" and literally nothing else. As I said in my thread, these posts add nothing to the discussion and just make reading through the replies more annoying as they just get in the way.

Agreed. I dont think its bannable but I think that it should be something to be avoided, like necro posting, and things like that.

Dude what’s wrong with saying u agree I don’t agree at all -1111

Then say why you disagree instead of just dragging down the suggestion without valid context.

Exactly. You dont need a long post to say “i agree.”

I do agree that the rules should be clearer, but they should not making posts like”i agree” and “add a poll” banable. They’re not at all useless. Sometimes people genuinely forget to add a poll, or forgot to add a voting option.
-1

I partially agree and disagree with this. They need to make it clearer and it shouldn't be bannable. However, just like necro posting this should be warned about by staff because it's frustrating.

As far as I can tell from this post (I'm not active on the forums anymore and check back in very little to see if anyone mentioned me or messaged me):

There are some people who only specifically say "I agree" while adding absolutely nothing to the post. That can make it harder to go through the thread's replies. Saying "I agree" while adding absolutely nothing to the topic of conversation, the discussion and the post itself is absolutely useless and almost makes it seem like you're trying to farm likes.



You said it yourself. You don't need a long post to say "i agree." In fact you don't need any posts. Give the thread a like.


Well, here's the thing. When the thread is JAM PACKED with people saying "Add a poll!!!!!!", ESPECIALLY AFTER THE OP ALREADY SAID THIS:

I think it's safe to say that the OP has not genuinely forgotten to add a poll. Would love to be proven wrong though.

Nearly 3/4th of all replies seem to be "Add a poll", "you should add a poll". I think one post is enough for that, think not?

Anyways @KitsuneToru I think you should add a poll.

Thank you. You are amazing and well said. The "you should add a poll" thing is funny when people say it as a joke, but being unneccessary about it is why I agree with the base suggestion in the first place.

if you want the mods to listen, your probably gonna need a poll

Yeah that's probably true tbh. It got really twisted though

If staff are properly reading suggestions then they should be reading all 2-3 pages or however much to see all the arguments and debates so that they can weigh up the advantages and disadvantages of the suggestion for themselves. If they are just reading the inital post and poll and not continuing on, then they won't be able to get a full grasp of any positives or especially negatives that someone might have brought up later.

Also there already is a "vote yes" button without a poll. It's called the like button.

Yeah 2-3 pages is nothing compared to *4000* it's not that much of a struggle, especially with a constantly growing team

Do you know how many posts is posted every day on the forums? There is like a bajillion of them, and i think the staff team has more to do than look at posts all day all long.

Fair enough I sorta agree. At least the first 2-3 pages could be read though since even though there is no poll, having a poll should have people why they agree/disagree instead of voting with no context and leaving.