Archer Assault changes

[Gainfullterror]

No intro needed. Just my thoughts on Archer assault + some great possible changes.

Offensive kit.
The offensive kit. It's too powerful, and the worst part is that it's extremely easy to use for those with a low ping. They deal with an immensely smaller delay in shots compared to someone that averages with a ping of about 160.
Offensive should straight up be removed. Well, I wish it could be. That, or it should just be changed to this:
The bow itself will become more like a regular bow, but with a much smaller drawback time. By that I simply mean that it takes less drawing back of the bow to shoot a fully charged arrow (which should deal about as much damage as the quickfire bow normally does per shot). To compensate somewhat, the player gets a small speed boost (150% normal speed)
The player gets slowness 3 while shooting their bow. Using their ultimate will allow them to use the bow while moving freely without needing to draw it back. instead of the arrow spamming ability. The ability stays the same invisibility pot.

Tank kit.
Tank kit is also ridiculously powerful. It's too easy to knock players around, and really doesn't take any proper aiming if you spam barely charged shots. I use this kit if I don't go healer, and I can guarantee you that it's extremely powerful. What do we do to negate this?
I'd like it to be changed like this: Every 5 arrows you shoot will replace one arrow with a spray of arrows like the current bow does 100% of the time. So: It's essentially a normal bow, but it shoots 5 arrows at once for every 5 regular arrows you shoot. That ensures that you can't just spam it without consequences. However, since this would make the tank a little useless compared to demo, the tank should get more armour. I suggest a chain chestplate on top of their leather armour will do just nicely.

Remaining kits.
I honestly have no qualms regarding healer and Demolitionist since they're fairly balanced and both have their ups and downs. There is one thing I'd like to change though: Healers really don't stand much of a chance for getting onto the top killstreaks list. Obviously, this is because the healer isn't much of a damaging kit. The only times I get on there is if I deliberately target weak players, steal kills or knock someone into the void in Monuments. (PS monuments is great, would love some more maps with a void aspect)
A healing bonus would be nice at the end of the game. This could be given if you've healed over, for instance, 100 hearts in an entire game. Once you've done that, you get an extra bit of points and experience because of choosing a kit that only supports your team rather than saving your own skin. This will be given to you regardless of winning the game or not.

Shaolin.
It's a nice map and all, but there's too many things wrong with it.
Here's a short list of all the problems I have with it:
-5 team maps, causes really painful 5v4 scenarios with the demonic damage boost (will be talked about later), Change the map to a 4v4, or make it bigger to be suited for a proper 5v5. The damage boost won't be a problem if it's changed to the system I'll be talking about later in this post.
-The hut in the middle makes it really easy for invisible offensive kits to come out of nowhere and run away. Players keep running around until the rest of their team respawns and makes it to the point, making it really difficult to actually capture the objective. Please remove this weird structure, @TheJeroen !
-The area between your spawn point and the objective is too short. Players can make it back in like 4 seconds, and have plenty of room to do so too. Make the map bigger and add some distance between the spawn and the objective.
-The hanging lanterns make it somewhat difficult for players to jump in using the tank leap, and players like to camp up there. I honestly dislike it, and think it should be removed OR moved higher to be less in the way.

Balancing system revamp: The infamous, painfully demonic damage boost.
Let me tell you: Team balancing features are cool and all, but there's a major issue: If you're in a 4v3 situation, you're going to have a lot of trouble dealing with the team of 3. This is because they get a massive damage boost just for missing one player. I don't know about you, but this is pretty unfair whe you think about it:
Why would the missing of one player decide that the other team needs a damage boost? Heck, most of the time we have to deal with a useless teammate or two that end up being the reason that the opponents have a damage boost. It's like we're doing a 3v3, but we have a useless teammate on our side meaning it's actually a 3v3 where one team has an unfair damage boost.
What do we do to make a good balancing system?
Just give the opposing team a small resistance buff depending on how great the difference in players is in teams.


Tags: @Tacosbefriends @Snodia @Lezappen @TheSadDurpy_ @jollow250

 

[Priley]

I only have about 50 wins because I helped @TheSadDurpy_ getting on the board, and I have to agree with all the things you mentioned

 

[schot]

I tryharded until 200 wins, but stopped because the game was getting really boring. I definetly love all of this suggestions

 

[Lezappen]

- Offensive kit: I agree, increasing the speed of the arrows when launched from drawing back the bow would allow for faster shots, while drawing back the player is already obligated to stop by the game mechanics, I suppose you're suggesting that be changed so the offensive kit can still move while drawing (slowness 3 nonetheless)

- Tank kit: An alternative I can think of to shooting 5 shots every time would be to decrease the ~~chances of shooting 5 arrows at once~~ strength of the arrows thr further they are from where you are aiming or make it dependant on how far the bow is drawn back:
(Orange = weak shots, green = strong)
Left : Now - Right : Suggested.

- Healer kit: The healer gets the assists, I believe they count as kills, a healing bonus at the end would be cool, depending on the value of the amount of hearts healed/10, that could encourage people to be good healers, and if you aren't a bad healer, you can have a little more points than other players if you win the game, small bonus.

4v3 or 5v4, extra resistance instead of a damage boost is a better alternative, I agree with this point.

 

[MagnificentSpam]

It's been a while since I last played archer assault, so maybe something was changed since then. I don't think the offensive and tank kits are really overpowered, the healer is a good kit as well, only the demolitionist is very useless.
I never liked the bow mechanics of the offensive kit, changing them would be good, but not necessarily to nerf it.
Making the multi arrow shot of the tank random would make it very unsatisfying to play, if you can't rely on the multi shot, you can't really use it on purpose and can only get random hits by accident. Having it depend on how far the bow is pulled back sounds better, that way it's still possible to use it strategically.

 

[Tacosbefriends]

Offensive kit.
The offensive kit. It's too powerful, and the worst part is that it's extremely easy to use for those with a low ping. They deal with an immensely smaller delay in shots compared to someone that averages with a ping of about 160.
Offensive should straight up be removed. Well, I wish it could be. That, or it should just be changed to this:
The bow itself will become more like a regular bow, but with a much smaller drawback time. By that I simply mean that it takes less drawing back of the bow to shoot a fully charged arrow (which should deal about as much damage as the quickfire bow normally does per shot). To compensate somewhat, the player gets a small speed boost (150% normal speed)
The player gets slowness 3 while shooting their bow. Using their ultimate will allow them to use the bow while moving freely without needing to draw it back. instead of the arrow spamming ability. The ability stays the same invisibility pot.

I feel that this kit should be turned more into a speed fighter, like TF2's Scout. Increase movement speed, decrease max health. Perhaps make the bow charge up slowly, and when released, it fires a burst of up to five arrows.

Tank kit.
Tank kit is also ridiculously powerful. It's too easy to knock players around, and really doesn't take any proper aiming if you spam barely charged shots. I use this kit if I don't go healer, and I can guarantee you that it's extremely powerful. What do we do to negate this?
I'd like it to be changed like this: Every 5 arrows you shoot will replace one arrow with a spray of arrows like the current bow does 100% of the time. So: It's essentially a normal bow, but it shoots 5 arrows at once for every 5 regular arrows you shoot. That ensures that you can't just spam it without consequences. However, since this would make the tank a little useless compared to demo, the tank should get more armour. I suggest a chain chestplate on top of their leather armour will do just nicely.

Tank kit doesn't feel very tanky at all. It has the exact same armor and max health as every other kit. I believe tank should get an even bigger slowness debuff in exchange for resistance I or II. I also think tank's jump ability should be replaced with a temporary shield so tanks can do what they're supposed to: defend weaker teammates and absorb the brunt of the assault. Maybe a future kit would be better suited to have a jump like this. Maybe a ninja-themed kit?

I also think the spread of the tank bow needs to be reduced. We already removed two arrows from its burst shot, but I don't think removing arrows is the way to go. I think rather than shooting in an arc, they should fire in a ball like an actual, real life shotgun. There seems to be a misconception that shotguns obliterate an entire room when fired, where in actuality, their spread is more the size of a baseball depending on things like gauge. Diagram below is useful:

Remaining kits.
I honestly have no qualms regarding healer and Demolitionist since they're fairly balanced and both have their ups and downs. There is one thing I'd like to change though: Healers really don't stand much of a chance for getting onto the top killstreaks list. Obviously, this is because the healer isn't much of a damaging kit. The only times I get on there is if I deliberately target weak players, steal kills or knock someone into the void in Monuments. (PS monuments is great, would love some more maps with a void aspect)
A healing bonus would be nice at the end of the game. This could be given if you've healed over, for instance, 100 hearts in an entire game. Once you've done that, you get an extra bit of points and experience because of choosing a kit that only supports your team rather than saving your own skin. This will be given to you regardless of winning the game or not.

I'd love for healer to get more of an acknowledgement. Behind every great demo is an even greater healer. I could not achieve the massive kill streaks I get in most games without my trusty healer. I also wouldn't mind seeing healers able to "uber charge" their party members by healing them several times in a row while they're already full health. Uber charge might just give them absorption I or a slight damage buff for 10 seconds.

Shaolin.
It's a nice map and all, but there's too many things wrong with it.
Here's a short list of all the problems I have with it:
-5 team maps, causes really painful 5v4 scenarios with the demonic damage boost (will be talked about later), Change the map to a 4v4, or make it bigger to be suited for a proper 5v5. The damage boost won't be a problem if it's changed to the system I'll be talking about later in this post.
-The hut in the middle makes it really easy for invisible offensive kits to come out of nowhere and run away. Players keep running around until the rest of their team respawns and makes it to the point, making it really difficult to actually capture the objective. Please remove this weird structure, @TheJeroen !
-The area between your spawn point and the objective is too short. Players can make it back in like 4 seconds, and have plenty of room to do so too. Make the map bigger and add some distance between the spawn and the objective.
-The hanging lanterns make it somewhat difficult for players to jump in using the tank leap, and players like to camp up there. I honestly dislike it, and think it should be removed OR moved higher to be less in the way.

Shaolin either needs to be 4v4 or the courtyard area needs to be changed to make it harder to get back to the objective.

The structure in the middle of the objective is hellish as well. It's nearly impossible to hit anyone with anything other than the spammy offensive or tank kits due to the ease of ducking behind it and hiding forever or until your teammates return. Really needs to be removed. I also think the stairs should be all around the objective rather than just at two ends of it. If I want to get a powerup, I have to walk aaaaall the way to the stairs then aaaaall the way back then pillar/staircase up with my blocks.

Balancing system revamp: The infamous, painfully demonic damage boost.
Let me tell you: Team balancing features are cool and all, but there's a major issue: If you're in a 4v3 situation, you're going to have a lot of trouble dealing with the team of 3. This is because they get a massive damage boost just for missing one player. I don't know about you, but this is pretty unfair whe you think about it:
Why would the missing of one player decide that the other team needs a damage boost? Heck, most of the time we have to deal with a useless teammate or two that end up being the reason that the opponents have a damage boost. It's like we're doing a 3v3, but we have a useless teammate on our side meaning it's actually a 3v3 where one team has an unfair damage boost.
What do we do to make a good balancing system?
Just give the opposing team a small resistance buff depending on how great the difference in players is in teams.

I think the buff should reflect the imbalance. A team of 4 has a total of 40 hearts and 400% of a normal player's damage. If the game is unbalanced, I believe 50% of the missing teammate's health and damaging capabilities should be divided among the remaining teammates. This would result in:

4v3: 11.66 hearts and +16.6% damage
4v2: 15 hearts and +50% damage
4v1: 25 hearts and +150% damage

Still a pretty monstrous buff in some situations, but considering it's only really bad at 4v1, I think a monstrous buff is needed for them to even stand a chance. I don't think even I can win a 4v1 against players of my skill level with this enormous damage boost we currently have.

 

[Injunction]

Offensive kit.
The offensive kit. It's too powerful, and the worst part is that it's extremely easy to use for those with a low ping. They deal with an immensely smaller delay in shots compared to someone that averages with a ping of about 160.
Offensive should straight up be removed. Well, I wish it could be. That, or it should just be changed to this:
The bow itself will become more like a regular bow, but with a much smaller drawback time. By that I simply mean that it takes less drawing back of the bow to shoot a fully charged arrow (which should deal about as much damage as the quickfire bow normally does per shot). To compensate somewhat, the player gets a small speed boost (150% normal speed)
The player gets slowness 3 while shooting their bow. Using their ultimate will allow them to use the bow while moving freely without needing to draw it back. instead of the arrow spamming ability. The ability stays the same invisibility pot.

I believe it truly comes down to the fact that there is no drawback so you can walk around a person while constantly shooting them
As I said in my thread it truly is too OP and I completely agree

Tank kit.
Tank kit is also ridiculously powerful. It's too easy to knock players around, and really doesn't take any proper aiming if you spam barely charged shots. I use this kit if I don't go healer, and I can guarantee you that it's extremely powerful. What do we do to negate this?
I'd like it to be changed like this: Every 5 arrows you shoot will replace one arrow with a spray of arrows like the current bow does 100% of the time. So: It's essentially a normal bow, but it shoots 5 arrows at once for every 5 regular arrows you shoot. That ensures that you can't just spam it without consequences. However, since this would make the tank a little useless compared to demo, the tank should get more armour. I suggest a chain chestplate on top of their leather armour will do just nicely.

I’d say give it a slight damage reduction and you’ll be fine
Tank is much MUCH more of a close range attack kit

Shaolin.
It's a nice map and all, but there's too many things wrong with it.
Here's a short list of all the problems I have with it:
-5 team maps, causes really painful 5v4 scenarios with the demonic damage boost (will be talked about later), Change the map to a 4v4, or make it bigger to be suited for a proper 5v5. The damage boost won't be a problem if it's changed to the system I'll be talking about later in this post.
-The hut in the middle makes it really easy for invisible offensive kits to come out of nowhere and run away. Players keep running around until the rest of their team respawns and makes it to the point, making it really difficult to actually capture the objective. Please remove this weird structure, @TheJeroen !
-The area between your spawn point and the objective is too short. Players can make it back in like 4 seconds, and have plenty of room to do so too. Make the map bigger and add some distance between the spawn and the objective.
-The hanging lanterns make it somewhat difficult for players to jump in using the tank leap, and players like to camp up there. I honestly dislike it, and think it should be removed OR moved higher to be less in the way.

games take forever on this map unless it is a game with at max 4 players
I do think Shaolin needs many many spacing changes while I also think it overall needs to be revamped
A disadvantage of just 1 player can just ruin your game on this map especially
All your changes are 100% necessary
I agree with your changes though I also think adding a new more reasonable map with 5 players would be good

Balancing system revamp: The infamous, painfully demonic damage boost.
Let me tell you: Team balancing features are cool and all, but there's a major issue: If you're in a 4v3 situation, you're going to have a lot of trouble dealing with the team of 3. This is because they get a massive damage boost just for missing one player. I don't know about you, but this is pretty unfair whe you think about it:
Why would the missing of one player decide that the other team needs a damage boost? Heck, most of the time we have to deal with a useless teammate or two that end up being the reason that the opponents have a damage boost. It's like we're doing a 3v3, but we have a useless teammate on our side meaning it's actually a 3v3 where one team has an unfair damage boost.
What do we do to make a good balancing system?
Just give the opposing team a small resistance buff depending on how great the difference in players is in teams.

Like I mention earlier
4v3 damage boost is nothing in comparison to a 2v1 damage boost
It Ismail practically nonexistent

It just needs to be fixed and I agree to this too

A healing bonus would be nice at the end of the game. This could be given if you've healed over, for instance, 100 hearts in an entire game. Once you've done that, you get an extra bit of points and experience because of choosing a kit that only supports your team rather than saving your own skin. This will be given to you regardless of winning the game or not.

this seems more achievement material then anything
However as an achievement that would be a good one

 

[Gainfullterror]

Now that I look at it: the poll was made in a rather stupid way. I should've just put "...agree with changing x" instead of "...agree with the suggested changes for x"

Anyways, I'm not too big on thinking of ways to rebalance existing kits, so I'm open for anything that you guys have mentioned. I actually quite like Lez's idea of the arrows getting weaker depending on which one it actually is, and that might work out really nicely with the shotgun spreading range change mentioned by Tacos. It'd make it much harder to knock people around due to how important aiming is going to be, and makes for much less room for error if you're trying to get decent damaging shots just by running around.

I feel that this kit should be turned more into a speed fighter, like TF2's Scout. Increase movement speed, decrease max health. Perhaps make the bow charge up slowly, and when released, it fires a burst of up to five arrows.

Weaker discount tank?
I don't know, really. As long as they don't get to run around and shoot arrows indefinitely, I'm fine with it. They simply need to have something to slow them down while they shoot arrows. All they really have to do right now is look at you and run around, purely focusing on evasion.

I believe tank should get an even bigger slowness debuff in exchange for resistance I or II.

I'm not sure about how well an even bigger slowness debuff will improve gameplay. Two of the maps heavily rely on being able to jump to get to the objective (Monuments has a void gap, Lighthouse has the small space between the starting area and the actual middle island).
Then again, I suppose we do have blocks for a reason.

I also think tank's jump ability should be replaced with a temporary shield so tanks can do what they're supposed to: defend weaker teammates and absorb the brunt of the assault.

Maybe instead of the leap they could get something like 8 obsidian blocks which take 10 regular hits (3-4 demo hits) to destroy? Seems pretty defensive to me.

I think the buff should reflect the imbalance. A team of 4 has a total of 40 hearts and 400% of a normal player's damage. If the game is unbalanced, I believe 50% of the missing teammate's health and damaging capabilities should be divided among the remaining teammates. This would result in:

4v3: 11.66 hearts and +16.6% damage
4v2: 15 hearts and +50% damage
4v1: 25 hearts and +150% damage

I honestly don't understand how this is is calculated, but the percentages seem much better than what feels like a bonus 50% damage per player that's missing.

Like I mention earlier
4v3 damage boost is nothing in comparison to a 2v1 damage boost
It Ismail practically nonexistent

You'd be surprised how much justice just a damage boost of a single missing player can do for you. I'm not sure, but it feels like you get 150% damage output if you're missing a player from your team. That alone can be deadly with the quickfire kit specifically, and also really painful for tanks and demos.

this seems more achievement material then anything
However as an achievement that would be a good one

It's not really meant to be an achievement. Healers get little to no recognition by the game itself, and the damage dealers get all the glory (points for kills (if you disregard the broken assist system), top kill streaks).

 

[MrGrumpyCheese]

The offensive kit. It's too powerful, and the worst part is that it's extremely easy to use for those with a low ping. They deal with an immensely smaller delay in shots compared to someone that averages with a ping of about 160.

An easy solution to this would be to have the bow toggle on or off whenever the player clicks on it. This way, once the bow has started firing it will keep doing so at whatever rate the server decides; it doesn't need to check if the player is still clicking so isn't dependant on ping. A short delay between toggles may be required if the first arrow is shot immediately after engaging the bow.

As for the tank kit I wouldn't mind more of a focus on defensive capabilities, however it doesn't make much sense to change the pattern of the shot arrows to include a vertical dimension since you very rarely need to shoot up and down. Also, I like how horizontal pattern can be used to quickly destroy a barricade of blocks to allow your team to follow in after you, which suits the heavy theme of the kit. I prefer Lez's idea of requiring a longer charge for a wider shot.

Another thing is the bow doesn't fire after using leap and drawing it back mid-air. Perhaps this is just a glitch, or it might be intentional to nerf the leap ability. Either way I don't like it, it just takes what little fun there is away from it.

I didn't vote on the balancing system changes as I don't think there's any way to make it fair enough for all circumstances. I actually didn't know a damage boost existed, which I think is part of the problem: if few players know about it then once one player leaves their team, many more are sure to follow, which just makes it even harder to balance for a larger player gap.

To be honest, I think the problem here lies in the unpopularity of the game itself. Cubecraft wanted Archer Assault to be an Overwatch clone, but that kind of game just doesn't fit with Cubecraft's players. The large majority of players only join because it's next to Bingo and Infection, and by the rate that drop out halfway through the match, I doubt they ever return. Since the leaderboard update, it has attracted more of its intended audience; squads of players in a party battling it out. However, they very rarely get to actually play another coordinated team, whether it's due to match fixing with afk opponents or the experienced squads quitting as soon as they start to lose, since really they only want to be on a leaderboard and don't play for the enjoyment of the game. Archer Assault is too one-dimensional, it uses confusing and seemingly inconsistent modifications to an already unpopular weapon, and has no space for ingenuity.

I realise this isn't completely relevant to your topic but I'd much rather see Archer Assault removed than have an update.