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adrian525pl

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I noticed, while playing bedwars, that regardless what armor you buy, you die quickly. Even with "maxed" armor it feels rather easy to get killed quickly. So I did the only ting I could have come up with, which was pulling out an old excel spreadsheet that calculates damage which I "made" (received from a bug tracker moderator) for an older post long ago when I was attempting to prove damage is broken (it turned out the damage was working fine, its the HP bar that is broken af), put in the values of the armors and weapons from bedwars, and see when it makes sense to buy which type of armor (if at all).

So, to start off, I put in wooden sword on leather armor to see if its even worth buying.

NOTE: In case you haven't noticed, you don't get helmets in bedwars, so the armor points are lower than when you have full armor.

Another NOTE: Weapon damage is always a combination damage of the weapon (4 for wooden swords, 5 for stone, 6 for iron, etc.) AND one extra point of damage from your fist. Which means that a wooden sword, for example, deals 5 points of damage.


So, what results did I get out of that.

For a TL;DR, just skip to the end. Otherwise, happy reading.

Sidenote: its still worth checking the conclusion as I may mention things there that aren't anywhere else in the post due to having discovered them later in the writing process.


Here is the calculation for a wooden sword on leather armor.
1711632662058.png


Just like I expected, against a wooden sword, leather armor barely makes a difference (you only last one extra hit compared to not having armor)


And what about stronger swords?

Well, the moment your opponent has a stone sword, it makes ZERO difference in the amount of hits you can survive:
1711632762780.png


For comparison, here are the stats for a stone sword without armor:
1711632839397.png



I didn't even put in leather with iron and diamond swords, because its pointless.




But what about chainmail?


Well, it does make a slightly bigger difference against wooden swords, where you last 2 extra hits.
1711633001365.png


And you last one extra hit against stone.
1711633117212.png


And you last one extra hit against Iron.
1711633142292.png


Same applies for diamond.

1711633183884.png



Its only against sharpness I diamond that it stops making a difference.
1711633211405.png



Lastly, Iron Armor.


Against wooden sword, finally there is significant difference. You last 3 extra hits compared to not having any armor.

1711634334969.png




Same for stone swords, where you also survive 3 hits compared to the norm.

1711634426158.png



For Iron swords, the difference is 2 hits.
1711634556519.png



For Diamond, one singular hit.

1711634782095.png



And finally, sharp I diamond, also one extra hit.
1711634814750.png




But that isn't all. There is a bonus that can buy protection I for your armor. Does it make a difference?


For that I created another excel sheet, this time one that takes into account the level of prot your armor has and the amount of elements that have it.


NOTE 3: In that same sheet is another table where you can input the values and calculate them for the "old" system/java 1.8 pvp, so that's why some screenshots may say "New System (1.18+)" at the top


The way protection (on bedrock) works is: If you receive 4 damage, and your armor were to reduce it by one, protection then takes the remaining 3 damage and reduces that by a certain percentage. That percentage is determined by the amount of armor that has protection on it, as well as the level of protection. Each level of protection increases that percentage by 4% on the piece of armor that has it. So, for example, a protection I helmet with the rest being unenchanted, puts that percentage at 4%. A prot 2 helmet at 8%. And this stacks to a maximum of 64% if all 4 pieces of armor have protection 4.

For the armor in bedwars, its always 12% if you buy prot 1.


So, how much difference does it make?

For wood on leather, it makes you last a grand total of... 2 extra hits compared to not wearing any armor.
1711635153003.png



Stone, on that same armor, finally deals reduced damage to the point you last one extra hit.
1711635295393.png



Against Iron, prot 1 leather also lasts one extra hit.
1711635392224.png




To my suprise, against diamond, you also last one extra hit compared to the same armor without prot/not wearing armor at all.

1711635435281.png



Against sharp I diamond, prot 1 leather finally makes zero difference.
1711635603049.png





Onto chainmail again.

Against wood, Prot I chainmail lasts one hit more than without prot 1.

1711635675418.png



Same applies for stone swords,
1711635747498.png



and Iron Swords.
1711635800748.png



Unluckilly, but also strangely (because prot made a difference on leather armor), yet unsuprisingly, it makes prot makes zero difference against a diamond sword:
1711635952033.png



BUT, you do get to survive one extra hit against sharp I diamond if you have prot I chainmail.
1711636075602.png



Finally, Iron armor.

Against wood, with prot I Iron, you last one extra hit compared to unenchanted Iron.
1711636253114.png


Same for stone,
1711636302682.png


Iron,
1711636347596.png



and Diamond,
1711636386356.png



It makes zero difference against Sharp I diamond though, you might as well not have protection on the armor.

1711636552083.png



Okay, but there is also another bonus that can make you last longer, the extra hearts one.

Except, the difference here is... weird.

And by that I mean: While you do get to last longer if your opponents have weak weapons (screenshot below shows Wooden sword on leather armor with 0 protection, as a reminder: on 20 health you last 5 hits):
1711637586575.png


The difference disappears if the weapons get stronger.

Leather, Ironically enough, benefits a lot from the 2 extra hearts of health as it allows you to take on one extra hit from all weapons except sharp I diamond compared to having normal health. (Not showing the screens for all of them now)


Chainmail probably benefits the most from extra health, as not only does unprotected chainmail last one extra hit against all weapons except for a plain diamond sword, with Prot I chainmail also providing that "effect" against plain diamond.


Iron Armor doesn't actually benefit from it that much.

While against wood, unprotected Iron lasts 2 hits more than without the extra health on that same armor,
1711638223392.png


It makes zero difference against sharp I diamond if its prot I Iron. (Or, translated to humanly comprehensible speech: on prot I Iron, you can have 10 hearts or 12 hearts, and it makes zero difference against a sharp I diamond sword).
1711638314581.png


Even with a golden apple popped in, equalling to a total of 28 health, that still means just one extra hit for prot I Iron against a sharpness I diamond compared to having just 20 health, and only 2 extra hits compared to having unprotected Iron Armor.


Tl;dr/Conclusion/Summary:


1. For the love of whatever deity, higher power, moral, laws, cults, religions, currencies, states, sciences, pseudosciences, or states of mind you believe in, DO NOT BUY LEATHER, UNLESS YOU HAVE PROT I


2. All armors are next to useless when faced with a sharpness I diamond sword, and pretty bad when faced with a normal diamond sword.
OR, rephrased in a simpler way:
2. Diamond swords and sharpness I are overpowered af in this game.



3. prot I Leather armor and UNPROTECTED chainmail last equally long against all weapons, so if you do have prot I bought for your team, you can now face players who have chainmail and no enchantments as players equipped equally to you.



4. Wooden Swords remain viable options all the way until the opponents either have Iron Armor OR Prot I chainmail.


5. The difference Prot I makes compared to not having prot, in most situations and against most weapons, is small. Its not worth buying over sharpness I OR extra hearts.
5b. Sharpness I is the strongest enchantment in the game.


6. When against sharp I diamond, the health upgrade is useless if you are on prot I Iron. Even further supporting conclusion no. 2.


7. The only armor making a difference of more than 2 extra hits is Iron Armor if you have no Prot, and Chainmail (in some scenarios) and Iron Armor if you DO have prot. This means that a lot of the time armor, especially before buying protection, is not really worth it that much.
 

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Mr Jii Gamer

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I noticed, while playing bedwars, that regardless what armor you buy, you die quickly. Even with "maxed" armor it feels rather easy to get killed quickly. So I did the only ting I could have come up with, which was pulling out an old excel spreadsheet that calculates damage which I "made" (received from a bug tracker moderator) for an older post long ago when I was attempting to prove damage is broken (it turned out the damage was working fine, its the HP bar that is broken af), put in the values of the armors and weapons from bedwars, and see when it makes sense to buy which type of armor (if at all).

So, to start off, I put in wooden sword on leather armor to see if its even worth buying.

NOTE: In case you haven't noticed, you don't get helmets in bedwars, so the armor points are lower than when you have full armor.

Another NOTE: Weapon damage is always a combination damage of the weapon (4 for wooden swords, 5 for stone, 6 for iron, etc.) AND one extra point of damage from your fist. Which means that a wooden sword, for example, deals 5 points of damage.


So, what results did I get out of that.

For a TL;DR, just skip to the end. Otherwise, happy reading.

Sidenote: its still worth checking the conclusion as I may mention things there that aren't anywhere else in the post due to having discovered them later in the writing process.


Here is the calculation for a wooden sword on leather armor.
View attachment 229025

Just like I expected, against a wooden sword, leather armor barely makes a difference (you only last one extra hit compared to not having armor)


And what about stronger swords?

Well, the moment your opponent has a stone sword, it makes ZERO difference in the amount of hits you can survive:
View attachment 229026

For comparison, here are the stats for a stone sword without armor:
View attachment 229027


I didn't even put in leather with iron and diamond swords, because its pointless.




But what about chainmail?


Well, it does make a slightly bigger difference against wooden swords, where you last 2 extra hits.
View attachment 229028

And you last one extra hit against stone.
View attachment 229029

And you last one extra hit against Iron.
View attachment 229030

Same applies for diamond.

View attachment 229031


Its only against sharpness I diamond that it stops making a difference.
View attachment 229033


Lastly, Iron Armor.


Against wooden sword, finally there is significant difference. You last 3 extra hits compared to not having any armor.

View attachment 229035



Same for stone swords, where you also survive 3 hits compared to the norm.

View attachment 229036


For Iron swords, the difference is 2 hits.
View attachment 229037


For Diamond, one singular hit.

View attachment 229038


And finally, sharp I diamond, also one extra hit.
View attachment 229039



But that isn't all. There is a bonus that can buy protection I for your armor. Does it make a difference?


For that I created another excel sheet, this time one that takes into account the level of prot your armor has and the amount of elements that have it.


NOTE 3: In that same sheet is another table where you can input the values and calculate them for the "old" system/java 1.8 pvp, so that's why some screenshots may say "New System (1.18+)" at the top


The way protection (on bedrock) works is: If you receive 4 damage, and your armor were to reduce it by one, protection then takes the remaining 3 damage and reduces that by a certain percentage. That percentage is determined by the amount of armor that has protection on it, as well as the level of protection. Each level of protection increases that percentage by 4% on the piece of armor that has it. So, for example, a protection I helmet with the rest being unenchanted, puts that percentage at 4%. A prot 2 helmet at 8%. And this stacks to a maximum of 64% if all 4 pieces of armor have protection 4.

For the armor in bedwars, its always 12% if you buy prot 1.


So, how much difference does it make?

For wood on leather, it makes you last a grand total of... 2 extra hits compared to not wearing any armor.
View attachment 229040


Stone, on that same armor, finally deals reduced damage to the point you last one extra hit.
View attachment 229041


Against Iron, prot 1 leather also lasts one extra hit.
View attachment 229042



To my suprise, against diamond, you also last one extra hit compared to the same armor without prot/not wearing armor at all.

View attachment 229043


Against sharp I diamond, prot 1 leather finally makes zero difference.
View attachment 229044




Onto chainmail again.

Against wood, Prot I chainmail lasts one hit more than without prot 1.

View attachment 229045


Same applies for stone swords,
View attachment 229046


and Iron Swords.
View attachment 229047


Unluckilly, but also strangely (because prot made a difference on leather armor), yet unsuprisingly, it makes prot makes zero difference against a diamond sword:
View attachment 229048


BUT, you do get to survive one extra hit against sharp I diamond if you have prot I chainmail.
View attachment 229049


Finally, Iron armor.

Against wood, with prot I Iron, you last one extra hit compared to unenchanted Iron.
View attachment 229050

Same for stone,
View attachment 229051

Iron,
View attachment 229052


and Diamond,
View attachment 229053


It makes zero f**king difference against Sharp I diamond though, you might as well not have protection on the armor.

View attachment 229054


Okay, but there is also another bonus that can make you last longer, the extra hearts one.

Except, the difference here is... weird.

And by that I mean: While you do get to last longer if your opponents have weak weapons (screenshot below shows Wooden sword on leather armor with 0 protection, as a reminder: on 20 health you last 5 hits):
View attachment 229055

The difference disappears if the weapons get stronger.

Leather, Ironically enough, benefits a lot from the 2 extra hearts of health as it allows you to take on one extra hit from all weapons except sharp I diamond compared to having normal health. (Not showing the screens for all of them now)


Chainmail probably benefits the most from extra health, as not only does unprotected chainmail last one extra hit against all weapons except for a plain diamond sword, with Prot I chainmail also providing that "effect" against plain diamond.


Iron Armor doesn't actually benefit from it that much.

While against wood, unprotected Iron lasts 2 hits more than without the extra health on that same armor,
View attachment 229057

It makes zero difference against sharp I diamond if its prot I Iron. (Or, translated to humanly comprehensible speech: on prot I Iron, you can have 10 hearts or 12 hearts, and it makes zero difference against a sharp I diamond sword).
View attachment 229058

Even with a golden apple popped in, equalling to a total of 28 health, that still means just one extra hit for prot I Iron against a sharpness I diamond compared to having just 20 health, and only 2 extra hits compared to having unprotected Iron Armor.


Tl;dr/Conclusion/Summary:


1. For the love of whatever deity, higher power, moral, laws, cults, religions, currencies, states, sciences, pseudosciences, or states of mind you believe in, DO NOT BUY LEATHER, UNLESS YOU HAVE PROT I


2. All armors are next to useless when faced with a sharpness I diamond sword, and pretty bad when faced with a normal diamond sword.
OR, rephrased in a simpler way:
2. Diamond swords and sharpness I are overpowered as f**k in this game.



3. prot I Leather armor and UNPROTECTED chainmail last equally long against all weapons, so if you do have prot I bought for your team, you can now face players who have chainmail and no enchantments as players equipped equally to you.



4. Wooden Swords remain viable options all the way until the opponents either have Iron Armor OR Prot I chainmail.


5. The difference Prot I makes compared to not having prot, in most situations and against most weapons, is small. Its not worth buying over sharpness I OR extra hearts.
5b. Sharpness I is the strongest enchantment in the game.


6. When against sharp I diamond, the health upgrade is useless if you are on prot I Iron. Even further supporting conclusion no. 2.


7. The only armor making a difference of more than 2 extra hits is Iron Armor if you have no Prot, and Chainmail (in some scenarios) and Iron Armor if you DO have prot. This means that a lot of the time armor, especially before buying protection, is not really worth it that much.
Wow this is a hard job i think
And there is a lot of information 🥶
 

Roxrock

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I really appreciate the amount of dedication and effort you have put into this research. Would you mind sharing the spreadsheet that you used with me, as I might end up making a copy and using it myself down the line. Also, does this calculator figure out the hits it takes to go from full health to no health with, or without regeneration mechanics considered, as I believe they might impact the difference armor makes. Unfortunately, I believe the cubecraft uses a health regeneration system similar to Java rather than normal bedrock regeneration. (I might be incorrect though)
 

adrian525pl

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Feb 23, 2023
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Also, does this calculator figure out the hits it takes to go from full health to no health with, or without regeneration mechanics considered, as I believe they might impact the difference armor makes.
Without regeneration considered, logically it will only make a difference if its really quick regen OR if you do have those 2 extra hearts, without them the regen will rarely make a significant impact except for scenarios that already require a lot of hits to kill.

Also: how exactly do you want me to give you the spreadsheet? I can't upload it through the forums
 
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Roxrock

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Also: how exactly do you want me to give you the spreadsheet? I can't upload it through the forums
In the spreadsheet, click on share > manage access > general access > anyone with link can open (with viewer permissions), then copy the link (or click copy link) and post it. I’m using google sheets for touchscreen devices, so the steps for sharing might be a bit different if your on a pc and/or using excel.
 

betty's oldies

Forum Expert
I noticed, while playing bedwars, that regardless what armor you buy, you die quickly. Even with "maxed" armor it feels rather easy to get killed quickly. So I did the only ting I could have come up with, which was pulling out an old excel spreadsheet that calculates damage which I "made" (received from a bug tracker moderator) for an older post long ago when I was attempting to prove damage is broken (it turned out the damage was working fine, its the HP bar that is broken af), put in the values of the armors and weapons from bedwars, and see when it makes sense to buy which type of armor (if at all).

So, to start off, I put in wooden sword on leather armor to see if its even worth buying.

NOTE: In case you haven't noticed, you don't get helmets in bedwars, so the armor points are lower than when you have full armor.

Another NOTE: Weapon damage is always a combination damage of the weapon (4 for wooden swords, 5 for stone, 6 for iron, etc.) AND one extra point of damage from your fist. Which means that a wooden sword, for example, deals 5 points of damage.
First of all, great work on investigating CubeCraft's damage calculation. Here's some corrections:
  • It appears CubeCraft uses Java's damage calculation in Bedrock, and this explains why hits hurt more than expected even when you're armored.
    • In Java's damage calculation, the weapon sets the base damage of the attack, not add its damage to your fist damage. So an iron sword will deal 6 damage per hit rather than 1+6 (total of 7) damage.
  • I'm not sure if porting Java's damage calculation to Bedrock is intentional, but netherite armor (further reduces incoming damage compared to diamond armor) being present in minigames such as EggWars, FFA, etc. and implications from your bug report suggests that this damage calculation change is intended. Unless I am mistaken, none of this is publicly documented in CubeCraft's changelog.
  • Per your previous investigation, HP is internally represented as a floating point value. Due to the game's code, if there would be a fractional HP value, then the internal HP is rounded up.
 

adrian525pl

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Feb 23, 2023
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First of all, great work on investigating CubeCraft's damage calculation. Here's some corrections:
  • It appears CubeCraft uses Java's damage calculation in Bedrock, and this explains why hits hurt more than expected even when you're armored.
    • In Java's damage calculation, the weapon sets the base damage of the attack, not add its damage to your fist damage. So an iron sword will deal 6 damage per hit rather than 1+6 (total of 7) damage.
That's not entirely correct.

Cubecraft uses the system of damage calculation bedrock uses, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BEING THE DAMAGE VALUES OF THE WEAPONS (except the trident, though that's irrelevant for bedwars). Basically: its the bedrock system with java values, if that makes sense.

That said, I did get it wrong here when calculating some of the weapons, but realistically that just means I have to redo wooden swords some time in the future. And that what I said for each weapon actually applies for the weapon tier "above" it. So, for example, what I said for diamond actually applies for diamond+sharp I, and so on.

I'm not sure if porting Java's damage calculation to Bedrock is intentional, but netherite armor (further reduces incoming damage compared to diamond armor) being present in minigames such as EggWars, FFA, etc. and implications from your bug report suggests that this damage calculation change is intended. Unless I am mistaken, none of this is publicly documented in CubeCraft's changelog.
Netherite armor reducing damage further is caused by diamond and netherite armor having an additional (hidden, in bedrock) statistic called "Toughness". If I recall correctly, each diamond piece adds 2 toughness for a maximum of 8, each netherite piece adds 3 toughness for a maximum of 12.

Its not documented in cubecrafts changelog because that's just a part of minecraft bedrock edition, and as far as I know its documented in bedrocks changelogs somewhere.

Since bedwars has neither of the two armors that have toughness (these are the only armors that use and have that stat) I have not taken toughness into consideration for this.

Per your previous investigation, HP is internally represented as a floating point value. Due to the game's code, if there would be a fractional HP value, then the internal HP is rounded up.
That'd be how the hive does it as far as I am aware. There your HP is almost always rounded. There is also no critting on the hive (as far as I can tell at least) I saw a youtuber on the Hive figure out that you can basically run around with a stone or iron sword all game and you'll be off just as well as if you had a diamond sword (as long as the opponents armor, ironically enough, is strong enough, you may have a bit more of a problem against weaker armors if u go by this logic).

On cubecraft you keep more-or-less the exact fractional HP value (as exact as floats can be) with the HP bar trying to represent it in a very weird way where, as an example: 5.9999 HP (just below 3 hearts) can be displayed as 2.5 hearts or 3 hearts, which can be misleading because your survival depends on the fractional (invisible) HP value, not the one displayed ingame.


The problem being that the same applies for any HP value that is above 5.0 and below 6.0. So 5.00001 can (and often is) displayed the same way as 5.9999, that is problematic.

Meanwhile its the HP bar that will influence your decision making, and that half a heart of difference can be massive depending on the circumstances.

On the Hive, the HP Bar value is your health. On cubecraft, the HP Bar value is the games attempt at displaying your health.
 

betty's oldies

Forum Expert
That's not entirely correct.

Cubecraft uses the system of damage calculation bedrock uses, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BEING THE DAMAGE VALUES OF THE WEAPONS (except the trident, though that's irrelevant for bedwars). Basically: its the bedrock system with java values, if that makes sense.
That's still pretty odd, because I was getting these figures in FFA:
  • Wizard kit with strength 1 potion was dealing 3.00 damage (1.5 hearts) per hit against a warrior kit. We would expect it to deal 2.02 damage using Bedrock's damage calculation due to strength (and armor according to the wiki page) working differently in Bedrock than in Java. Is this the correct page for Bedrock's damage calculation?
    • This is the one for Java.
  • A sniper kit needs 5 fully powered bow shots to kill a warrior kit. Prior to this change, it would take 8 consecutive shots to kill a warrior.
 

adrian525pl

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Is this the correct page for Bedrock's damage calculation?
I actually had a bug tracker dude explain to me that there isn't a page for it.

The current bedrock system is not documented in any wikis, it is very close to the java system though (the one used from 1.9 onwards), the difference being the way protection enchantments work. Not gonna explain how protection works, I already did that in the post. Basically: For java you have a whole formula calculating damage with all of the different variables included. For bedrock, protection removes the damage remaining after the armors damage reduction is applied.

But besides that they are pretty much identical as far as I have been told.
 

Desiderata

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thanks for this lmao gave me a lot of insight regarding armor

would probably save for iron and prot upgrades now instead of going straight for leather and chain

ig now i'll just rush and roam more often instead of camping/waiting for 20 gold

@caraMel you gotta approve this post fr
 
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Desiderata

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thanks for this lmao gave me a lot of insight regarding armor

would probably save for iron and prot upgrades now instead of going straight for leather and chain

ig now i'll just rush and roam more often instead of camping/waiting for 20 gold

@caraMel you gotta approve this post fr
update: yes, this is much more efficient

if you play good and fast enough you don't even need armor at all, just focus on sharpness > health boost > health regen
 

betty's oldies

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I actually had a bug tracker dude explain to me that there isn't a page for it.

The current bedrock system is not documented in any wikis, it is very close to the java system though (the one used from 1.9 onwards), the difference being the way protection enchantments work. Not gonna explain how protection works, I already did that in the post. Basically: For java you have a whole formula calculating damage with all of the different variables included. For bedrock, protection removes the damage remaining after the armors damage reduction is applied.

But besides that they are pretty much identical as far as I have been told.
I confirmed it just now, and I stand corrected. You're right that the damage calculation on Bedrock was recently changed.
 
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