All Networks The new community feedback team and it’s issues

[Casualpoalrbear]

This seems like a very big topic at the moment, so I just wanted to leave my concerns and questions here so they can be addressed. I would like to preface this by saying that I am not against the feedback team, I am just simply unaware of all the inner workings.

From what I can gather from this thread, it seems that there is really only one person in charge. Only one person who has perms, despite there being more than one mod on the team. Also only one person who discusses suggestions with admins. No hate to hoshi on this, as she is great. But I do so multiple flaws with this system. First of all this leaves hoshi with more work than necessary since she could share these duties with another person. Second of all, when sharing these suggestions with admin(s), there is only one opinion from the team. Yes I imagine hoshi would try to include all the team members opinions, but this is not nearly as good as having even two members from the team. I don’t think that having 2/3 people would make things to messy. It just allows for opinions to not be lost. To me, it seems that there are no checks and balances with only one person leading the team. If I am misunderstanding anything, please let me know :)

There actually are trying to work out a way for the team to sit through the meetings and talk with the Admins as well. So we agree here

 

[Wildd]

I would quickly like to mention that a suggestion getting forwarded to the team and by the team are two wholely different things.

The process is currently as follows:

1. A team member sees a new suggestion thread on the Forums or suggestion post in the Discord.
2. They review how many positive/negative reactions/replies it's had up until then.
3. If they think it's a good QoL change or if it's a popular suggestion with overwhelmingly positive reactions (or both), they forward it to the feedback team Discord.

But everything you just said is invalidated considering the 'discussion' process involves you essentially giving your own opinion privately and in some cases changing the suggestion.

This thread you linked had overwhelmingly positive reviews. Adding chain but not leather did not as that was not what I had suggested. So if I did not veto that proposal Luke would have been under the impression chain is what people want.

And either way as you are the only one with direct contact to luke in vc because you treat the rest of the team like infants that need managing who knows what you actually forwarded.

 

[privqted]

Firstly, they quite like silencing disagreement. @privqted @wheatyl and I were all removed from the team for disagreeing with the idea. I was then demoted for disagreeing with the idea.

Exactly I was removed from the feedback team after I wasn't fully on board with the idea. I also spoke about the team on stream and ended up getting my partner rank threatened with a warning over it. yes I wasn't very nice with what I said but I basically just said "the team is mostly java players and itll be biased" which I mean, its pretty true considering majority of the team is java. Also I should be allowed to express my opinions. Im a streamer who needs things to talk about and I dont agree with everything.
The fact we asked if we could have the same perms and also VC with admins but where shut down because we'd "abuse???" them and the VC would be to "chaotic"? Everyone in the team should be trusted with the same powers and not just follow the leader who gets control over everything.

 

[Hoshi]

But everything you just said is invalidated considering the 'discussion' process involves you essentially giving your own opinion privately and in some cases changing the suggestion.

This thread you linked had overwhelmingly positive reviews. Adding chain but not leather did not as that was not what I had suggested. So if I did not veto that proposal Luke would have been under the impression chain is what people want.

And either way as you are the only one with direct contact to luke in vc because you treat the rest of the team like infants that need managing who knows what you actually forwarded.

I don't see the need to share this at all as you're just misinforming people now.

I never "changed" the suggestion. The inner working of the team include discussion within the Discord as well. I was simply discussing a possible second solution formed from my own insights in this case, just as someone else would for instance propose different EggWars shop armour prices than you. Nothing was ever invalidated. To add onto this, this whole discussion resulted in the community talk post in the official Discord on this topic, which I'm sure you're aware of.

Your assumptions about how I treat the team are solely based on the state of the team at the exact start of the project. I don't personally agree with them either way, but if that's how you see it I can't really change your mind. It is known within the team, and now here too as it's been mentioned once or twice, that the prefix-changing permissions for the Forums are currently broken, so it's difficult to properly manage everything. This will change once a fix is pushed out for this. Moreover, team members will soon be able to also help manage the community-corner channel. As for the calls, we're trying to find a middle ground to properly manage that, but as said before, we are still trialling the team so not everything will work out immediately.

There may have been a slightly rushed release for the project and not everything is going as smoothly, but I stand by the decisions I've made so far.

 

[Wildd]

I don't see the need to share this at all as you're just misinforming people now.

Where's the misinformation? This is a genuine screenshot.

I never "changed" the suggestion. The inner working of the team include discussion within the Discord as well. I was simply discussing a possible second solution formed from my own insights in this case, just as someone else would for instance propose different EggWars shop armour prices than you. Nothing was ever invalidated. To add onto this, this whole discussion resulted in the community talk post in the official Discord on this topic, which I'm sure you're aware of.

Yes but why were you discussing a 'second solution' that you came up with? That defeats the point of a team that is supposed to represent the community if you, someone who has almost never played bedrock eggwars, tries to privately propose a different suggestion.

And if privated and I hadn't vetoed it you would have changed it.

Your assumptions about how I treat the team are solely based on the state of the team at the exact start of the project. I don't personally agree with them either way, but if that's how you see it I can't really change your mind. It is known within the team, and now here too as it's been mentioned once or twice, that the prefix-changing permissions for the Forums are currently broken, so it's difficult to properly manage everything. This will change once a fix is pushed out for this. Moreover, team members will soon be able to also help manage the community-corner channel. As for the calls, we're trying to find a middle ground to properly manage that, but as said before, we are still trialling the team so not everything will work out immediately.

My assumptions about how you treat the team are based off of what you have said to me, not what I have came up with in my mind. You told me you think if the other team members were also in the VC with luke it would be 'chaotic'. You told me you think if the other team members were allowed forums perms they might 'abuse' them.
You told me you like having the final say and the overall power over the other people.

These aren't things I'm making up.

 

[Frontlane]

Why is everyone writing whole papers here . “Déjà vu”
Eating a whole cake is much better than a whole paper :)
For the once that know know that eating a whole cake can be dangerous and funny.

fr aint reading allat

 

[RelatedNoobs]

I think transparency of how this team works will help the members of the community who feel like total outsiders understand the functionality a lot better.

hey Pineapple its great to see you again btw :D

Alright so being completely honest here I agree with pretty much everything you said. I personally am on the feedback team but had/still have doubts about it. I originally also completely disagreed with it, then was invited to the team and am giving it a chance.

I don't know why the list of members wasn't posted sooner? Literally everyone on the team agreed it should be public like a month ago. I think I brought up the exact same point you did when the team was debating making it public:

Spoiler: screenshot

The team needs to be as transparent about the work as possible. It's not a shadow government made to determine the fate of someone's opinion, it's a team of people trying to amplify suggestions so the admins actually see what their community is saying.

There really is no community admin anymore

Everyone misses Younisco :(

Cubecraft should hire a new community manager!!! Or more team members in general instead of just unloading the work of one person who left onto someone else.

I never "changed" the suggestion.

You were going to but I decided to voice my opinion. As mentioned previously, the team was announced to the public in almost a "pre-alpha" stage. It's still in extremely early development. This situation started a big swing about why this team exists/what it's purpose is. I'll let the conversations speak for me because I think it answers the big question of "why does this team exist" very well.

Spoiler: response

Spoiler: why do we exist

The last screenshot is a bit messy because of multiple conversations going on at the same time but it's mostly the ending that matters.

I personally think (and believe everyone on the team agrees) that we do NOT change suggestions or add to it privately then forward it. If we suddenly have a better idea/compromise, we should first comment it publicly on the post or elsewhere.

Our goal should be to find suggestions that didn't receive as much attention and consider if the idea is good or not. Small QOL things that people usually skip over because it generally doesn't seem interesting to read. We are not going to forward a suggestion for a brand new game mode with 3 agrees for example, because the reactions can speak for themselves.

 

[Casualpoalrbear]

hey Pineapple its great to see you again btw :D

Alright so being completely honest here I agree with pretty much everything you said. I personally am on the feedback team but had/still have doubts about it. I originally also completely disagreed with it, then was invited to the team and am giving it a chance.

I don't know why the list of members wasn't posted sooner? Literally everyone on the team agreed it should be public like a month ago. I think I brought up the exact same point you did when the team was debating making it public:

Spoiler: screenshot

View attachment 226524

The team needs to be as transparent about the work as possible. It's not a shadow government made to determine the fate of someone's opinion, it's a team of people trying to amplify suggestions so the admins actually see what their community is saying.

Everyone misses Younisco :(

Cubecraft should hire a new community manager!!! Or more team members in general instead of just unloading the work of one person who left onto someone else.

You were going to but I decided to voice my opinion. As mentioned previously, the team was announced to the public in almost a "pre-alpha" stage. It's still in extremely early development. This situation started a big swing about why this team exists/what it's purpose is. I'll let the conversations speak for me because I think it answers the big question of "why does this team exist" very well.

Spoiler: response

View attachment 226526

Spoiler: why do we exist

View attachment 226527

The last screenshot is a bit messy because of multiple conversations going on at the same time but it's mostly the ending that matters.

I personally think (and believe everyone on the team agrees) that we do NOT change suggestions or add to it privately then forward it. If we suddenly have a better idea/compromise, we should first comment it publicly on the post or elsewhere.

Our goal should be to find suggestions that didn't receive as much attention and consider if the idea is good or not. Small QOL things that people usually skip over because it generally doesn't seem interesting to read. We are not going to forward a suggestion for a brand new game mode with 3 agrees for example, because the reactions can speak for themselves.

I agree with basically everything here.

 

[s4mways]

The server needs a community which isn't possible if nearly half the members aren't on the same page. "The players" are actually the best admin if you think about it since they "test" and play the game a lot. I hope there will be a solution before it is too late!

Some advice I'd like to give to the current team-members:

1. Make the discord public but keep some private channels. The community is very important like I mentioned before, they should be able to vote in polls. By doing this you will see what players truly want.
2. Expand the team like others already mentioned.
3. Centralize the suggestions, make it clear on Discord that the forums are the only way to create suggestions. This will make it way easier for Cubecraft and members of the community.

 

[Roxrock]

No one is alting to inflate their thread. It takes forever to make a forums account and is also against the rules and alt accounts will be banned and the reactions un-inflated. It's also obvious.

As for asking friends to agree, so what? No one is going out of their way to agree with a suggestion unless they also want it, so what's the issue with them being told the thread exists because they aren't active forums users?

And about your point about the forums users not being proportional, that's true but it reflects the community. Lucky islands has no, or virtually no, community. That doesn't mean lucky islands will never receive an update it just shows that maybe some parts of the server with more of an active community should get priority?

It works better forwarding threads that are popular than your little team forwarding the threads you want. Which is what happens. I've seen it.

I admit that alt accounting is impractical and an issue I haven’t really seen happen, I just find it to be a principle flaw that could theoretically happen. However, I still think getting your friends, followers, viewers, or just reaching out to people in communities unrelated to cubecraft could be used too get people to react with agreement without those people carrying even slightly about the suggestion at hand, they would just do it because I’m there friend, or because I promised them something in return.
I disagree with your 3rd argument here. You’re saying that it’s ok if only the voice of the majority is heard. A suggestion not being popular due to a lack of community isn’t an issue of priority, the suggestion would probably never get seen regardless of if any community can reach the number of 25. It’s an issue where if a community around any game that isn’t above a certain size isn’t capable of voicing their complaints at all or being represented by the feedback system. It discourages people from even trying to make feedback who are in these communities, which encourages them to just stop making feedback and leave, thus causing them to not care about the feedback of other people in that community and creating a sort of positive feedback loop. Who cares if the game gets updated or not, if the feedback about the game doesn’t get seen it will keep getting more garbage updates making people in that community quit and causing feedback around it to be represented even less. And as I mentioned earlier, more popular communities would have greater control over getting suggestions forwarded or denied, even though they don’t actually play the game that the feedback is about. Players from other communities could just dislike all lucky islands suggestions to make sure it’s their game that has its feedback seen. Furthermore I think it’s pretty obvious that the proportion of people here, minecraft version, input device all considered, don’t accurately reflect the true proportion of cubecraft players for these 3 categories. Lucky islands is the 3rd most played cubecraft game on bedrock last time I checked, but I don’t believe it’s the 3rd most represented on these forums, is it? Perhaps its player base is more casual, or players tend to come and go rather than becoming devoted to it, the reason really doesn’t matter. I believe that ultimately, a system where what suggestions get forward is democratically decided would only be successful if the cubecraft community was relatively homogeneous, which it clearly isn’t, and this system would be implosive. In my opinion, this feedback team’s purpose is to ensure each suggestion can be considered if it generally favored by those who play it, and increase the communication between cubecraft and its community. Because the team is at such a young stage the latter currently isn’t being achieved well. For the time being, I will provide my own thoughts on feedback which would impact me as a player and say when I decide to forward a suggestion. I understand your point about us “changing suggestions” which is a bit exaggerated, but I do agree that in the future, we should ask the community about alternatives to their suggestions to see what is most preferred.

 

[Wildd]

I admit that alt accounting is impractical and an issue I haven’t really seen happen, I just find it to be a principle flaw that could theoretically happen. However, I still think getting your friends, followers, viewers, or just reaching out to people in communities unrelated to cubecraft could be used too get people to react with agreement without those people carrying even slightly about the......

To your first point, no one is ever getting people who don't play cc to positively react. No one is creating a forums account to positively react to a thread they don't care about and if they do you can tell very clearly when the reactions are all from new accounts.

As for what you said, I get it would be an issue because obviously eggwars suggestions would get more agrees than lucky islands suggestions, but I can't emphasise enough that that is due to the fact that there is a larger eggwars community in-game. Lucky islands may have players but they are mainly 5 year olds who could not care less whether it gets updated or not.
But I do get your concern, and I agree that just forwarding suggestions with x< agrees wouldn't cut it to make it completely fair, but I believe that system is a whole lot better than the 'feedback team'.

And the admins won't just never ever update lucky islands because they don't see any threads forwarded. They would likely sort by prefix and have a look at forums suggestions for that gamemode before planning an update (at least you'd hope they would) but that is much better than having a large amount forwarded by you guys

 

[Dreamer]

Since lots of things have already been said I will not add onto this but I have some comments on the general thread.

- First of all, previous to this team there was almost no attention being given to all the suggestions, so please consider this team as an improvement, no matter the things that need improving.

- Second of all, I would prefer this thread to focus on discussing and improving the team instead of some ex-members' apparent grudge against the entire team and workings. You are not helping.

Don't be afraid of typing bibles, the people involved will likely read them no matter their size!

 

[Wildd]

Since lots of things have already been said I will not add onto this but I have some comments on the general thread.

- First of all, previous to this team there was almost no attention being given to all the suggestions, so please consider this team as an improvement, no matter the things that need improving.

- Second of all, I would prefer this thread to focus on discussing and improving the team instead of some ex-members' apparent grudge against the entire team and workings. You are not helping.

I wouldn't put down our disagreement to a 'grudge'. I have no grudge against any members, especially considering half of you only joined the team after I was kicked out.

Calling my disagreement with the team a grudge is completely incorrect, it is an opinion based on everything I have seen happen so far.

 

[ToonBer]

simply letting us know WHO the team is.

That was not so simple to get this public

 

[Blom]

Another bookwork, my bad. A lot might've been said already but I took so long writing it that I didn't feel like checking everything I said with what has been said before lol

it just takes one unpopular thread being forwarded to make the bedrock community go into a spiral (speaking from experience, I've seen it before) and I don't think anyone wants that to happen

Forwarded is not implemented though.

As a Java player, I do not interfere with most / all bedrock suggestions, as I know little to none about the network. All forwarded suggestions for bedrock are only forwarded by bedrock mains for most part. Knowing that, there are now 3 layers of protection for a bad suggestion to go through. First, the community's vote: a bad suggestion that gets no attention or only negative attention will not be forwarded. Second layer are we: active players in the community, with a lot of experience in making agreeable suggestions as well as providing feedback on other's suggestions (im talking about BEFORE someone is on the team, as they already shown to be capable of doing so). Third layer will be CubeCraft, who besides having experience with the game also has data to back up or break down that suggestion. Theoretically, there is basically no chance a community suggestion that is terrible will actually reach the network, and I would love to see any examples where that previously happened, also for us to look at where something went wrong, which we can then avoid in the future :D

I think the proper way to have gone about it in the first place was to have this released slower!

absolutely agree, and it's a shame we cannot go back in time to do it differently. We will always try to be as inclusive as possible with new members, as well as with the members that joined later compared to me for example, who joined right at the start. This is something we will keep doing until as long as the team or as long as cubecraft may exist, which we hope will be an eternity.

This worries me, I really believe a team shouldn't be released until it is organized internally first. This just seems rushed. I don't think a program like this can work immediately if it's not organized internally in the first place (which I think is becoming increasingly evident.)

I think 'organising' is not the correct terminology, I'd rather call it 'fine-tuning'. This is based off of issues we come across during the trial we have right now, after the release. The team is basically in beta, as hoshi said, and by resolving the issues we go towards a final form of the team we are proud of. I believe I explained that in a previous post as well, so if you feel like anything is currently not going too well, please let us know. Your feedback is much appreciated, just like this post you made!

So if I did not veto that proposal Luke would have been under the impression chain is what people want.

You are not going to tell me you really think that Team CubeCraft sits on some sort of throne, have a servant come up with a report about how the war is going and not look at the battlefield themselves, like it went in ancient Persia? Eventually that was Xerxes's downfall as well, if we go back to that history. I think this situation is highly unrealistic, but we also had in-depth discussions about the situation. If we have a different solution to a problem posed in a thread, we will eventually go to the forums or discord and suggest our change in the thread, as a discussion should go. We only have an internal discussion about the suggestion, but we have guidelines now that changing a suggestion will not be done by snapping your fingers. So, this is a valid point to a certain extend, but I think this example is an extreme that's not what reality is.

which I mean, its pretty true considering majority of the team is java.

Of the team, it's only me and possibly Anol / CaraMel that do not play bedrock at all (im sorry peeps, I don't know about you ). At least 5 of the 10 members on the team are mains on bedrock, not including Hoshi for that calculation. With you on there, and without Dreamer as he joined later, that would make the dividing 4 java over 8 bedrock. This statement is just false in every sense, during your time on the team and after it. But even if it would've been right, I already stated that I myself am not involved in decisions for the other platform, as I don't have any idea about what is going on there.

The server needs a community which isn't possible if nearly half the members aren't on the same page. "The players" are actually the best admin if you think about it since they "test" and play the game a lot. I hope there will be a solution before it is too late!

Some advice I'd like to give to the current team-members:

1. Make the discord public but keep some private channels. The community is very important like I mentioned before, they should be able to vote in polls. By doing this you will see what players truly want.
2. Expand the team like others already mentioned.
3. Centralize the suggestions, make it clear on Discord that the forums are the only way to create suggestions. This will make it way easier for Cubecraft and members of the community.

Okay, to your points:
1. What is the use of another discord when the team will still discuss stuff in private channels? Polls are already on both forums and discord, in a lot of different ways (reactions, actual polls, discussions etc.). I don't see the benefits besides yet another space for the community to look at to stay up to date with what has been suggested and what hasn't.
2. SoonTM!
3. By implementing the community corner, the whole goal has been for people to be able to suggest their ideas as easy as possible. The forums have not been as userfriendly as might've been wanted, whereas the discord server is exactly that. The forums provide more in-depth and longer messages like this one, sorry once again, while the discord provides easier quick discussions. Both have benefits, which is why we want to use both. With a team of 10 and growing, we should be able to gather as many of the good feedback as possible! So, to conclude, I disagree that this would be easier for the community at all.

Alright, that was it! :D

 

[s4mways]

What is the use of another discord when the team will still discuss stuff in private channels? Polls are already on both forums and discord, in a lot of different ways (reactions, actual polls, discussions etc.). I don't see the benefits besides yet another space for the community to look at to stay up to date with what has been suggested and what hasn't.

There is a huge huge lack of polls in the Cubecraft server & forums, Plexverse has made 3 games by using polls. The team is based around adding the correct suggestions to the server then why wouldn't they be allowed to give their opinions too?

 

[Xavi | Goofy]

There is a huge huge lack of polls in the Cubecraft server & forums, Plexverse has made 3 games by using polls. The team is based around adding the correct suggestions to the server then why wouldn't they be allowed to give their opinions too?

Which this team is going to help improve on. It's only in use for a month now. As discussed a lot of stuff is also in the works which should improve all of the points mentioned above. I'd say give it another month and see how the team has progressed. Keep in mind that in this month not really much has been released, so there wasn't much space for polls/discussion threads, nonetheless 5 were made for future updates and improvements. Which is potentially 5 more than if the team didn't exist.