CubeCraft is now pay to play

Discussion in 'Everything Else' started by MrGrumpyCheese, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. MrGrumpyCheese

    MrGrumpyCheese Member

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    Background Info
    The new game on the flagship Bedrock Edition, Chaos Skywars, requires the purchase of items from the CubeCraft store to join. By spending money on Minecraft worlds and skins etc., a player can accumulate VIP Experience, the value dependent on the content purchased. If a player racks up 300 VIP experience they are able to click and join this game on the server. Simple enough.

    Why I'm against it
    First of all, I'm sure it's all been agreed with Mojang, what with CubeCraft being an official partner, so I'm not going to try and argue that it's a breach of the EULA. There are more subjective points I'd like to share:


    I've said this before, and maybe I'm behind the times and can't see where Minecraft is headed, but I still feel that a pay to play approach is completely against the spirit of Minecraft. Upon buying the game I believe all players should have equal access to publicly hosted games, no matter how much they've paid. Once you've got the game, you should have the whole game. Little extras like cosmetics or other non-game changing items are fine. Things that affect a game are not. Things that prevent a player from even joining the game should in my opinion not be a part of Minecraft.


    Non-VIPs are able to join the game if warped by a VIP's party. I'm honestly not sure why this decision was made. Very few non-VIPs are going to find a VIP to play with. Even if they do, the team format of four solo players doesn't work well when your party takes up at least half the teams. It certainly doesn't give the average player the opportunity to play a representative game. Perhaps it's meant as a taster to entice more purchases. Perhaps it's there in case no other VIPs are playing. But if it's to lessen the severity of the paywall, I'm afraid it's ineffective since it'll be an option for too few people.

    Really CubeCraft is just separating its valued customers from the majority who for whatever reasons haven't shelled out on the marketplace content. Are these people ever going to support the server if they're being excluded? It's too easy for them to just join a different server with much more free choice. I just don't want CubeCraft to become a segregated hierarchy of patrons and prospective customers.

    It might be good for the cash flow, but there's no doubt in my mind that today's release left a poor impression in the minds of most players. Obviously CubeCraft needs to make money, but the further the bulk of the player-base is left behind, the fewer people there will ultimately be to gather all those Minecoins from. Drawing everyone in with the proclamation of a new game, only to turn the vast majority away disappointed will only leave them less responsive the next time something big happens.


    What should we expect in the future?
    Most of all I'm fearful for what is next to come. Back in August Minerware was introduced to Bedrock, where for the first week only players with the Pioneer rank could join. The event was posed as a chance for an exclusive preview rather than the first iteration of pay to play, which @johncoles was quick to dismiss:
    I saw this as a disapproval of the of the notion that CubeCraft would adopt a permanent pay to play scheme, but just 5 months later we have a game with no plans to ever open up to the common Minecraft player. Sure, Chaos Skywars is just another mode of a game that everyone can play; sure, normal Bedrock players have four different games they can join, but as with in August my main concern is what's yet to come. I want to know how far management are going to take this new model. Will it only be applied to new releases, or will it spread to our current games? If it's happening on Bedrock, will we find remnants of the Java network being cut off?

    Ultimately I realise that CubeCraft works as a business and so to be successful it must pursue the most profitable model possible. I just want to know if it's worth sticking around - or if in another half a year I won't even have the choice of which game I get to play without buying the next Candy Kingdom Survival Spawn.

    I'm interested to hear other peoples' opinions on the release of Chaos Skywars!
     
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  2. carrometeoro

    carrometeoro Member

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    The only thing I'm sad of it's because it's only on bedrock
     
  3. johncoles

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    Chaos SkyWars is simply an additional version of SkyWars. It's there as a thank you to the people who support us and help us stay in jobs. As far as I am concerned the most important thing for "the future" is that we can stay as a team creating content for you to all enjoy. Again as I explained in August, we're always trying things to see how well they work. First we tried "early access" for a time with Minerware, now we're trying an exclusive additional mode for people. It's important of note that if you're in a party you are able to join the game with your friends so only one of the four people needs to be eligible.
     
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  4. ImBen

    ImBen Member

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    I dont think you need to pay for play cuz i play Cubecraft for a long Time and i still enjoy when i play :)
     
  5. Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do

    Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do Member

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    So you don't wanna admit that paying to play a certain gamemode isn't pay to play?

    Add ranked games as a reward for those who support you. (Private games only ranked users can join)

    I understand, but you just said that you want to create content for us all to enjoy. That's a good plan, but you've just released content the most users can't enjoy. Like MrGrumpyCheese said, what's the next step? "Buy diamond to play experimental eggwars!", "Hit VIP level 4 to be able to play skywars again!" (Okay this might be little too much but you get my point, right?) Oh yeah, another question: Will you introduce those VIP levels to the Java platform? I don't hope so, to be honest.

    I honestly liked the "early access" thing more. That's because I think all players of the network should be able to enjoy all games. But hey, that's just my opinion. I hope you'll do something about this "Pay to play" thingy.
     
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  6. MrGrumpyCheese

    MrGrumpyCheese Member

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    But then again it's the only game exclusive to Bedrock, and the only newly created one since Eggwars No Void Mode if I'm not mistaken. I do appreciate that it's not unique, so normal players can experience something like it, but I have no clue how far you'll go with the next thing you try out.

    I disagree that it's just a sign of gratitude towards your supporters. I thought the whole content in exchange for donations concept was dropped years ago. They are customers buying a product, and the introduction of this new game is just another feature that players must pay for albeit through a more convoluted, indirect system.

    And this is why I don't value that:

    Alright, enough nitpicking, I have two main questions:

    Will a similar system of purchases enabling access to games (or pay to play if you'll concede that term) have any likelihood of manifesting on the Java network?

    What do you think the limit should be in terms of monetising features of the server? For the longest time it's been checked at cosmetics and voting, but with these recent expansions I wonder if we could see a regression in the standard player's options.
     
  7. Efcluke95

    Efcluke95 Member

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    OK.. this is something that could be considered as unfair, having to pay to play is undoubtedly something that many would not agree, but in my opinion, this is not the case, as @johncoles said "Chaos SkyWars is simply an additional version of SkyWars. It's there as a thank you to the people who support" but even if you haven't buy things to VIP experience, you are able to play that mode, you just need to be in a party with a person that has VIP experience to play, if you really want to play by yourself to those modes you always have the chance to buy a content pack, it is just like the java ranks, people that buy them is people that want to be able to vote, fly or select a specific map, and the people that play without a rank just play and enjoy the games, some of them play with a friend with rank to "have" the ability to vote or to fly with him etc. obviously there are differences but they are working and they need to have a way to win money, even if they are Minecraft partners it is a job and as a job you need to do thing to make it profit-earning.
    I can understand why people may do not like this, but this is just my opinion
     
  8. johncoles

    johncoles Management
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    You disagree that we see you as a community and say you understand that players are customers, yet dislike when we're businessy and try to ensure revenue? Yes players are customers, I don't think we have ever really hidden that at least not since I started here. We don't refer to customers as "donators" any more nor have we since 2014. The whole point of our content is to create revenue to allow us to pay the people making that content. With Bedrock the method of monetisation is incredibly different for two big reasons:
    1) Completely different player base. Usually younger than the Java players.
    2) The steps a player has to go through between getting Minecraft and buying something on CubeCraft is much more cumbersome than I would like it to be. Unfortunately we have little control over 95%+ of the process.



    Possibly.

    Personally, I think the balance we have with Chaos mode on Bedrock is well within balance. It's accessible if you're in a party (rather than just saying "NO YOU ALL MUST BUY SOMETHING") and is an additional game mode to an existing free to play game mode.


    At its base it is. However the fact you can freely play it without buying anything from us (if you're in a party) means it's not 100% limited.

    We've not added them because they're not sustainable. The whole process of getting that implemented for players costs a considerable amount of money. Then there's the actual cost of running that instance which if it is a game like EggWars could be an hour plus long is again quite significant. There's also the cost of poor player experience for all the other players. Taking a proportion of premium players in to their own games means they are not there in normal games increasing the likelihood of a game not starting.

    Thanks but as I said we're always looking at different things to try. Early access was a good test but games didn't always start, that's why with this test we made the game sizes more reasonable so they're quicker to start and that they are accessible to those without purchase using parties.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
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  9. GalacticAC

    GalacticAC Member

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    I supported and less than 2 months later half of the games get removed? lol nice way to treat your customers. Telling people to spend money while not offering enough content is not going to make things work.
     
  10. MrGrumpyCheese

    MrGrumpyCheese Member

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    Not sure if your response was the text above that, or you were going to write something else.

    I only dislike this form of ensuring revenue; this product (and any future creations of the same nature). Other than that I think the VIP Experience system and the approach to monetising Bedrock is great for adding value and rewarding customers. I was arguing there that access to a game can't just be passed of as a sign of thanks.
     
  11. CheatersDontWin

    CheatersDontWin Member

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    I had this discussion a while ago - around a year ago - and that didn't end well, so I'm not sure if it's that smart to discuss about this. Anyways, I do get your point and some things that you say but at the end: Cubecraft is a business company, they need to make money to get this all running properly, so I don't blame them. If you had the chance to make some money out of things, wouldn't you do that too?
     
  12. johncoles

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    I've edited my original post, it was there to answer your two questions but the quote got messed up. It's fine that you dislike it, again we're looking to try different ways of monetising to strike a balance between revenue and user experience.
     
  13. Jevmen

    Jevmen Member

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    I see 200€ in ranks per lobby i thing than the money is not a problem, rigth?
    "Help us to stay in jobs" sound extrange dude, budget problems in the server?
    But no problem men, i will still being a member than "help us to stay in jobs"


    Is not bad pay to play a "wip version beefore the game was pulished. But minerware was completed, they only made the oposit: made to users than dont pay access 1 week later
     
  14. Fredd_WG

    Fredd_WG Member

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    yo creo que de igual manera cube necesita fondos por eso necesita generar ingresos
     
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  15. carrometeoro

    carrometeoro Member

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    Sus ingresos estaran bajos y quizas no cubra todos los gastos(posiblemente esta situacion sea exagerar),así que necesitan algo más de dinero.
     
  16. johncoles

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    Seeing people in a lobby with ranks is fantastic but you have to also remember that some of those purchases could have happened 4+ years ago so I was more talking about the next 4+ years. Thanks for your concern though :p
     
  17. Jevmen

    Jevmen Member

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    And a lot of peolpe buy ranks in sales
     
  18. Riley

    Riley Member

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    Where is the tl;dr please, thank you :p