Waiting for a lock

[Deleted member 100818]

So.. this could be locked now as it was a mistake making this. The only reason it's still open is because people were still arguing. Well, people make mistakes =3

(@AnimalTamer1 @Buuuddy )

 

[Gainfullterror]

That's neat and all, but I personally find myself reading over lots of suggestions just to only vote on a poll and not respond to it. This is because I'd rather not post a comment which is, quite frankly, as useless to the thread as someone saying "+1" alone. Forcing moderators to post on every suggestion thread would mean that they'd have to post regardless of their own posts' quality, so I rather not enforce this.

 

[Facelurite]

Encourage them to comment and stuff, if they want. Their opinions are equal to ours, they just ban and lock and silence the humans.

Though they should escalate well-thought out and original threads instead of bug-fix threads.

 

[Deleted member 100818]

Their opinions are equal to ours,

Not anymore, they have the power to escalate the thread, so their opinion is majorer than ours, as they have the power to escalate it, and maybe even implement it.

moderators to post on every suggestion thread would mean that they'd have to post regardless of their own posts' quality, so I rather not enforce this.

So you're saying that they'll have low quality posts when being forced to? If so, that's not really the case imo. They're able to make their own posts as good as they should be. Just leaving their opinion isn't something that will decrease their post quality, even if it's a forced opinion.

 

[Lezappen]

Encourage them to comment and stuff, if they want. Their opinions are equal to ours, they just ban and lock and silence the humans.

Though they should escalate well-thought out and original threads instead of bug-fix threads.

I don't escalate those threads and encourage other staff not to do so as well, the bug report system is there for a reason.

Ohai!

So, I'm kind a frustrated by how the escalate system operates at the moment. It's basically unfair in my erperiences, and lots of others. So here is my thread, which shows you how to actually fix this unfairness.

* DISCLAIMER: I'm not here to complain about the system, I personally find it an unfair system so I am suggesting a solution.

What's wrong with the escalate system?
For those who haven't noticed yet, it's quite unfair. A moderator+ is able to escalate your suggestion, which basically means that a moderator wants an admin to look at it, to might implement it. The implemented tag means that it is implemented (obviously), but you need the escalate tag first. So not all threads are getting the attention they deserve, and that should be changed.

How do we fix this?
Easy, add this requirement: "At least one moderator need to respond at every suggestion which has been created by a member". So one moderator+ comment per suggestion, ain't that hard right?

So I feel that the same comments are coming, "But moderators are very busy, they don't even have time for that". So if that was the case, the whole escalate system would be useless, so you could basicaly throw it away. How many suggestions are posted per day? Sometimes not even one, so it's not very difficult to drop your opinion as a staff member.


What if one moderator likes it and another one doesn't?
Could be a common thing, but I've thought this through enough to give my answer. They should escalate it anyway, let the admin/management decide what it's gonna be.

What about the useless threads?
So for the threads which aren't gonna be implemented (like so obvious that it ain't worth a single comment), moderators could summarise that in one sentence, so it'd still be required to react at them.

Should an escalated thread be instantly locked?
No, others should still give their opinion(s) which could lead to another opinion from staff members as they heard other arguments.

Instant lock implemented threads
So not every implemented suggestion is locked, but it should be. There's no reason to keep it open as it's already implemented.

Here are the still open threads which are implemented
View attachment 144087So this is it. I might add other things which I forgot right now, but that won't be much. I might've made some mistakes which I didn't notice yet, will be deleted soon then.

Threads over time repeat themselves, I'm not going to lose my time explaining why when It has already been explained in the past, before posting a suggestion it is best to see if it already exists and build on that.
Suggestions that the community generally disagree with I tend to also ignore, if there was a suggestion "Make all the chat on the server bold and rainbow colored" I know for a fact the community disagrees with the suggestion and that the person posting the suggestion will get a general idea, as you said, we are community members too, so the general opinion would also be our opinion, what makes us different is that we have a bit of experience and a bit more knowledge on how some decisions are made, most of the time, I don't feel like my input is needed as the community does an amazing job at expressing their opinions on the topic, I do comment on suggestions that are controversial or otherwise have interesting topics, I try to be as constructive as possible.
I cannot post on every thread, it isn't possible, try to make the title of your suggestions as descriptive as possible, I'm usually drawn to descriptive titles and interesting ideas, I don't like spending my time on suggestions that haven't been thought out, are too vague or just aren't suggestions, or when I need to justify a lock.

Every staff member can escalate threads they are drawn to, so it doesn't matter if all staff don't like it, there only needs one staff member to be drawn to it for it to be escalated as that staff member may see something in the suggestion that others do not.

 

[Gainfullterror]

So you're saying that they'll have low quality posts when being forced to? If so, that's not really the case imo. They're able to make their own posts as good as they should be. Just leaving their opinion isn't something that will decrease their post quality, even if it's a forced opinion.

Imagine this: They see a suggestion for the first time, and what they have to say, has already been said in the comments countless times. I wouldn't comment it again as it has already been said & my comment wouldn't add anything to the thread. I only like to post when I can post something which hasn't been said already. Else it's just another case of "ctrl c" "ctrl v" which contributes absolutely nothing to the thread.
An opinion alone doesn't really say much about the thread at hand, but rather the reasoning behind your opinion. Just posting an opinion alone is great and all, but kind of useless in my opinion. An opinion alone doesn't tell you anything about why a person thinks that way.

 

[Deleted member 100818]

I don't like spending my time on suggestions that haven't been thought out, are too vague or just aren't suggestions.

You could just make a standard message for those.

Threads over time repeat themselves, I'm not going to lose my time explaining why when It has already been explained in the past, before posting a suggestion it is best to see if it already exists and build on that.

Yeah forgot to mention that one, I'll add it in a second but here's basically my answer on that: So if it has been suggested before it would indeed be a waste of time to react, get that. So when it has been suggested before you don't have to give your reaction, as it's been suggested before. You could give him or her the link of the same suggestion to let him or she know it's been suggested before

Suggestions that the community generally disagree with I tend to also ignore

I get that has a lower priority for a reaction, but ignoring it does not seem fair to me to be honest. When someone makes an awful suggestion, you could summarise that in just 7 words or so.

I don't feel like my input is needed as the community does an amazing job at expressing their opinions on the topic, I do comment on suggestions that are controversial or otherwise have interesting topics

So when reacting on other suggestions which aren't that helpful or needed than others, it would only give the creator some more knowledge about how staff thinks about it. At this moment, only staff can escalate threads, which is fine. But I believe they have to give their reaction at all suggestions, which is not that complicated when it comes to low effort suggestions. And I agree that the community does an amazing job either, but especially new people with a suggestion are waiting for staff response, as that's the reason why they make it. You'll prevent useless bumps then.

I cannot post on every thread, it isn't possible

You might not, but I don't think you're the only moderator responding at suggestions.

try to make the title of your suggestions as descriptive as possible, I'm usually drawn to descriptive titles and interesting ideas, I don't like spending my time on suggestions that haven't been thought out, are too vague or just aren't suggestions, or when I need to justify a lock.

As I said before, you could just summarise those in a few words, which doesn't need any effort.

Imagine this: They see a suggestion for the first time, and what they have to say, has already been said in the comments countless times. I wouldn't comment it again as it has already been said & my comment wouldn't add anything to the thread. I only like to post when I can post something which hasn't been said already.

Missed that point about the same threads in my own thread. So I'll just copy and paste what I said to lezappen:
"Yeah forgot to mention that one, I'll add it in a second but here's basically my answer on that: So if it has been suggested before it would indeed be a waste of time to react, get that. So when it has been suggested before you don't have to give your reaction, as it's been suggested before. You could give him or her the link of the same suggestion to let him or she know it's been suggested before"

 

[Gainfullterror]

"Yeah forgot to mention that one, I'll add it in a second but here's basically my answer on that: So if it has been suggested before it would indeed be a waste of time to react, get that. So when it has been suggested before you don't have to give your reaction, as it's been suggested before. You could give him or her the link of the same suggestion to let him or she know it's been suggested before"

Problem: This would lead people to believe that they shouldn't make suggestions if they've already been suggested before. And you and I both know this isn't the case. On top of that, saying that something's already been suggested before is beyond useless as it also doesn't contribute to the topic at all.

 

[Quetzi]

The escalation process isn't broken just because the threads you think should be escalated aren't being. Also, contrary to what has been said, when it comes to suggestions everyone has an equal voice. Quite often when a suggestion gets escalated the person escalating adds comments of their own, which quite often disagree with a good part of a suggestion as it was posted (even when a suggestion is marked as implemented there is often quite a large difference between the suggestion and the implementation). As has been said numerous times before, if you don't feel that your suggestion has got the attention you think it should do, perhaps take a look and figure out how you can either refine the post to create more constructive discussion. Suggestion threads all get read, expecting a response to each and every one of them is just not going to happen.

I've seen some good points come out of threads where the initial suggestion was not particularly good and I've also seen threads that try and cover every base that just try and squeeze too much into a single post that fizzle out because they haven't left any discussion points. Having staff interaction can often kill that process before it even starts, this isn't helpful and even if we have a viewpoint it's useful to see where the discussion goes before expressing it. As with everything it is not an exact science, but it also isn't broken.

 

[Deleted member 100818]

The escalation process isn't broken just because the threads you think should be escalated aren't being. Also, contrary to what has been said, when it comes to suggestions everyone has an equal voice. Quite often when a suggestion gets escalated the person escalating adds comments of their own, which quite often disagree with a good part of a suggestion as it was posted (even when a suggestion is marked as implemented there is often quite a large difference between the suggestion and the implementation). As has been said numerous times before, if you don't feel that your suggestion has got the attention you think it should do, perhaps take a look and figure out how you can either refine the post to create more constructive discussion. Suggestion threads all get read, expecting a response to each and every one of them is just not going to happen.

I've seen some good points come out of threads where the initial suggestion was not particularly good and I've also seen threads that try and cover every base that just try and squeeze too much into a single post that fizzle out because they haven't left any discussion points. Having staff interaction can often kill that process before it even starts, this isn't helpful and even if we have a viewpoint it's useful to see where the discussion goes before expressing it. As with everything it is not an exact science, but it also isn't broken.

Problem: This would lead people to believe that they shouldn't make suggestions if they've already been suggested before. And you and I both know this isn't the case. On top of that, saying that something's already been suggested before is beyond useless as it also doesn't contribute to the topic at all.

EDIT: I'll just look at the comments as I just pretend this did not happen

 

[Commissioned]

So not all threads are getting the attention they deserve, and that should be changed.

How are they not getting attention if they've just been marked for the management team to look at it?

Could be a common thing, but I've thought this through enough to give my answer. They should escalate it anyway, let the admin/management decide what it's gonna be.

Quick fix: 4 moderators out of 6 must be in agreement to escalate a thread - can be any six moderators.

 

[MagnificentSpam]

How about adding some more tags?

"Not a suggestion": Will be used for threads that are not suggestions. Those threads will be locked with a helpful message (report bug here, appeal here etc.).
"Stupid": Will be used for bad suggestions. Those threads will not be locked so people can discuss and possibly improve them.
"Impossible": For suggestions where the mod doesn't think it can be done. Those threads will not be locked to people can come up with ideas to implement them.
"Duplicate": For things that have already been suggested. Those will be locked with a link to the original suggestion, necroposting rule is removed.

The goal should be to give every suggestion a tag. If you can't apply one of those new tags, you have to escalate it.

Possible addition: Every suggestion thread gets a poll (yes/no) by default, if the poll result is negatve, the thread can be tagged with "unpopular". Being "unpopular" does not prevent a suggestion from being escalated and it is not a reason to lock a threat.

Problem: This would lead people to believe that they shouldn't make suggestions if they've already been suggested before. And you and I both know this isn't the case. On top of that, saying that something's already been suggested before is beyond useless as it also doesn't contribute to the topic at all.

That's only because of the necroposting rule, I think the best solution would be to ask people to respond to the original suggestion thread instead of having the whole argument again.

 

[Deleted member 100818]

How about adding some more tags?

"Not a suggestion": Will be used for threads that are not suggestions. Those threads will be locked with a helpful message (report bug here, appeal here etc.).
"Stupid": Will be used for bad suggestions. Those threads will not be locked so people can discuss and possibly improve them.
"Impossible": For suggestions where the mod doesn't think it can be done. Those threads will not be locked to people can come up with ideas to implement them.
"Duplicate": For things that have already been suggested. Those will be locked with a link to the original suggestion, necroposting rule is removed.

The goal should be to give every suggestion a tag. If you can't apply one of those new tags, you have to escalate it.

Possible addition: Every suggestion thread gets a poll (yes/no) by default, if the poll result is negatve, the thread can be tagged with "unpopular". Being "unpopular" does not prevent a suggestion from being escalated and it is not a reason to lock a threat./QUOTE]
I've been thinking about those kind of tags too, don't know why I didn't add them in the first place. My suggestion might not have been the best one I made, but I still don't agree with how the escalate system is operating atm.

 

[Lezappen]

How about adding some more tags?

"Not a suggestion": Will be used for threads that are not suggestions. Those threads will be locked with a helpful message (report bug here, appeal here etc.).
"Stupid": Will be used for bad suggestions. Those threads will not be locked so people can discuss and possibly improve them.
"Impossible": For suggestions where the mod doesn't think it can be done. Those threads will not be locked to people can come up with ideas to implement them.
"Duplicate": For things that have already been suggested. Those will be locked with a link to the original suggestion, necroposting rule is removed.

The goal should be to give every suggestion a tag. If you can't apply one of those new tags, you have to escalate it.

Possible addition: Every suggestion thread gets a poll (yes/no) by default, if the poll result is negatve, the thread can be tagged with "unpopular". Being "unpopular" does not prevent a suggestion from being escalated and it is not a reason to lock a threat.


That's only because of the necroposting rule, I think the best solution would be to ask people to respond to the original suggestion thread instead of having the whole argument again.

I don't know how players would react to having their suggestion marked as "Stupid"...

I think a better solution would be to have an upvote/downvote system so all community members can participate by agreeing to posts they like, there could then be a page that features the daily top rated suggestions. Now where are the tags? The popularity score could be a tag that shows how popular it is, now, I know there are alts, thank goodness we look at the content of the suggestion too, popularity will just be there to show the communities interest.

 

[MagnificentSpam]

I don't know how players would react to having their suggestion marked as "Stupid"...

I think a better solution would be to have an upvote/downvote system so all community members can participate by agreeing to posts they like, there could then be a page that features the daily top rated suggestions. Now where are the tags? The popularity score could be a tag that shows how popular it is, now, I know there are alts, thank goodness we look at the content of the suggestion too, popularity will just be there to show the communities interest.

If my suggestion is marked as stupid I'll either have to admit that, or I'll have to explain it in a way that is more convincing. The label can also be something else, maybe "undesirable".

A voting system to highlight the most popular suggestions would be interesting, but it would also be nice to know that my suggestion isn't completely ignored. I agree with the op here, each suggestion should get some kind of feedback, either get "escalated", meaning that it has actually been discussed in the management team, or an explanation why it is not. Tags would be the easiest way for that, because mods can see which suggestions have gotten no response yet.

It probably wouldn't hurt to escalate a few more suggestions that aren't bad enough for a "stupid" or "undesired" tag. If the suggestion isn't good, it will only take a few seconds for the management team to dismiss.

 

[Injunction]

Instant lock implemented threads
So not every implemented suggestion is locked, but it should be. There's no reason to keep it open as it's already implemented.

Pretty sure they already do that
The examples you gave weren’t conscious choices just mistakes

What if one moderator likes it and another one doesn't?
Could be a common thing, but I've thought this through enough to give my answer. They should escalate it anyway, let the admin/management decide what it's gonna be.

I have a feeling this point is more based on assumption More than anything

The implemented tag means that it is implemented (obviously), but you need the escalate tag first.

Wrong
I have 2 suggestions I made which were never escalated
Granted these 2 were suggested WAY before the escalated and implemented tags were added
However that is just proof they don’t need to be escalated before being implemented
Small suggestions that take almost no time to implement also likely won’t be escalated examples like Gainfullterror’s thread on removing slabs on the map elven for solo eggwars

"Stupid": Will be used for bad suggestions. Those threads will not be locked so people can discuss and possibly improve them.

Okay I want to point out how in alerts if a thread is escalated or implemented it will show up

Now think about how passive-agressive it would be if you were alerted “[insert name here] replied to the thread (Stupid) [insert title here]
I really don’t think it is necessary to just have a tag that’s sole purpose is to get people to not view a thread

 

[Deleted member 100818]

@StorySays I'd appreciate a lock =3

 

[Story]

@StorySays I'd appreciate a lock =3

~ Locked via request.