Java Should weakness arrows be removed from eggwars?

xv56 · Sunday at 10:45 AM

Weakness arrows are simply too overpowered and stall the game for far too long. They have too big of an impact on pvp and force the opponent to run away for the duration of the effect as a player with weakness has no chance against another player without any negative effects.

yurisatori0312 · Sunday at 10:49 AM

xv56 said:
Weakness arrows are simply too overpowered and stall the game for far too long.

It is a powerful item that can turn the game around even if you have a difference in equipment.

xv56 · Sunday at 11:00 AM

yurisatori0312 said:
It is a powerful item that can turn the game around even if you have a difference in equipment.

Its unfairly powerful and provides too big of an advantage in combat

yurisatori0312 · Sunday at 1:14 PM

xv56 said:
Its unfairly powerful and provides too big of an advantage in combat

This is necessary for players with high ping to eliminate the gap between them and players with low ping.

MrSheepBoss · Sunday at 1:16 PM

Hello, I don't even play Java but I feel like knocking people into the void or backstabbing them is an option even if ur affected by weakness.

Thunder · Sunday at 5:52 PM

MrSheepBoss said:
Hello, I don't even play Java but I feel like knocking people into the void or backstabbing them is an option even if ur affected by weakness.

Players can only be knocked by a weapon if you have the weakness effect. Hitting them with hand will not work. You will be at a huge disadvantage because there is an attack cooldown on Java.

MrSheepBoss · Monday at 2:44 PM

Thunder said:
Players can only be knocked by a weapon if you have the weakness effect. Hitting them with hand will not work. You will be at a huge disadvantage because there is an attack cooldown on Java.

Thanks but I get that java has attack cooldowns and hand hits dont deal knockback under weakness, but even then, saying the player has "no chance" feels like an exaggeration ngl

There are still tons of options like projectiles, bridge fights, or baiting players, using the terrain and with a team.

Still at the end of the day, mechanics like this reflect the creativity and adaptability of the playerbase. cubecrafts pvp isnt just clicking fast, sometimes its about outsmarting your opponent.

xv56 · Monday at 6:33 PM

MrSheepBoss said:
Thanks but I get that java has attack cooldowns and hand hits dont deal knockback under weakness, but even then, saying the player has "no chance" feels like an exaggeration ngl

There are still tons of options like projectiles, bridge fights, or baiting players, using the terrain and with a team.

Still at the end of the day, mechanics like this reflect the creativity and adaptability of the playerbase. cubecrafts pvp isnt just clicking fast, sometimes its about outsmarting your opponent.

Part of the reason you are able to knock players off is the fact that you deal damage whilst knocking them back, forcing them to lose health and be unable to heal since they are near the edge. Weakness arrows make you deal no damage (not an exaggeration) which means that the player getting knocked back has an incredible number of opportunities to break free with jump resets and trying to hit the player back since they don't need to heal. They also fully counter strength (which costs 13 diamonds I believe) for only a couple gold. Overall, in the competitive scene, weakness is an insanely overpowered effect and does not belong in eggwars entirely, let alone in the form of dirt cheap arrows.

yurisatori0312 said:
This is necessary for players with high ping to eliminate the gap between them and players with low ping.

That's a very flawed argument. First of all, most players with bad ping are the ones with an advantage but lets not get into that. Weakness arrows can be used by everyone, not just people with bad ping. The game is balanced around players with equal skill level and playing fields. In such a scene, the weakness arrows are beyond overpowered.

yurisatori0312 · Monday at 6:42 PM

xv56 said:
That's a very flawed argument. First of all, most players with bad ping are the ones with an advantage but lets not get into that. Weakness arrows can be used by everyone, not just people with bad ping. The game is balanced around players with equal skill level and playing fields. In such a scene, the weakness arrows are beyond overpowered.

Just because the Weakeness Arrow is strong doesn't mean it should be removed.

xv56 · Monday at 6:44 PM

yurisatori0312 said:
Just because the Weakeness Arrow is strong doesn't mean it should be removed.

I might need to change the post a bit. I should add the option for them to get nerfed, maybe costing diamonds instead of gold or reducing the duration of the effect by 70%

yurisatori0312 · Monday at 6:48 PM

xv56 said:
I might need to change the post a bit. I should add the option for them to get nerfed, maybe costing diamonds instead of gold or reducing the duration of the effect by 70%

Are you misunderstanding the duration of Weakeness Arrow's effect?
The effect lasts for about 30 seconds

xv56 · Monday at 6:52 PM

yurisatori0312 said:
Are you misunderstanding the duration of Weakeness Arrow's effect?
The effect lasts for about 30 seconds

It's about 11 seconds in eggwars. a 70% nerf will change that to 3-4 seconds which is fairer at the very least

yurisatori0312 · Monday at 6:59 PM

xv56 said:
It's about 11 seconds in eggwars. a 70% nerf will change that to 3-4 seconds which is fairer at the very least

If weakening it makes it fair, wouldn't it be fair not to weaken it?

Herrrooo · Monday at 8:26 PM

It's a difficult one to be honest. On one side I can see where you're coming from, on the other hand I think arrows with effects in general add a bit of spice to the game as they give the bow another function, besides just tossing people into the void. There are of course also other effects besides 'Weakness', but now that I think of it, perhaps the 'Weakness' effect serves as a nice counter to people (ab)using strength potions :>.

Thunder · Tuesday at 11:35 AM

As far as I see in EggWars games on Java, most of the players are discouraged from fighting when they have the weakness effect after being hit by an arrow because it significantly reduces the chance of winning the fight. Fights in late games already take too long and having this effect during a fight results in the player starting to run until the effect is gone. However, they will have the same effect when they get hit once again so it will be less likely to have a good fight.

MrSheepBoss said:
There are still tons of options like projectiles, bridge fights, or baiting players, using the terrain and with a team.

The attacker will have a huge advantage in a bridge fight as well because their cooldown when they use their hand will be less than the other person who is forced to use a sword. Using projectiles seems like a better idea to counter the weakness effect but this will turn the game into a bow spam competition and I don't find it fun at all.

MrSheepBoss said:
cubecrafts pvp isnt just clicking fast

PvP on Java isn't about clicking fast though. It has a different combat system with attack cooldowns so knocking people off requires more effort.

MrSheepBoss said:
Thanks but I get that java has attack cooldowns and hand hits dont deal knockback under weakness, but even then, saying the player has "no chance" feels like an exaggeration ngl

I agree that saying "no chance" is a bit of an exaggeration. Of course, winning the game is still possible without engaging in fights with good tactics. I just don't think an item which discourages people from fighting in a game where fights matter a lot should exist. I believe this item is too overpowered for this game.

MrSheepBoss said:
Still at the end of the day, mechanics like this reflect the creativity and adaptability of the playerbase. cubecrafts pvp isnt just clicking fast, sometimes its about outsmarting your opponent.

Herrrooo said:
It's a difficult one to be honest. On one side I can see where you're coming from, on the other hand I think arrows with effects in general add a bit of spice to the game as they give the bow another function, besides just tossing people into the void. There are of course also other effects besides 'Weakness', but now that I think of it, perhaps the 'Weakness' effect serves as a nice counter to people (ab)using strength potions :>.

Weakness arrows can be used to counter the strength potions but I don't think players should be able to do it with an item which costs only 2 gold in the Overpowered Mode. In my opinion, the most suitable item to use against strength potions are enchanted golden apples. Unlike weakness arrows, they don't discourage players from fighting.
I'm aware that removing this item would reduce the diversity of the items we have. That's why I believe nerfing this item by adding an item cooldown and increasing its price would be a good idea instead of removing it completely but I would prefer its removal to keeping it at its current state to be honest.

xv56 · Tuesday at 12:29 PM

Thunder said:
As far as I see in EggWars games on Java, most of the players are discouraged from fighting when they have the weakness effect after being hit by an arrow because it significantly reduces the chance of winning the fight. Fights in late games already take too long and having this effect during a fight results in the player starting to run until the effect is gone. However, they will have the same effect when they get hit once again so it will be less likely to have a good fight.

The attacker will have a huge advantage in a bridge fight as well because their cooldown when they use their hand will be less than the other person who is forced to use a sword. Using projectiles seems like a better idea to counter the weakness effect but this will turn the game into a bow spam competition and I don't find it fun at all.

PvP on Java isn't about clicking fast though. It has a different combat system with attack cooldowns so knocking people off requires more effort.

I agree that saying "no chance" is a bit of an exaggeration. Of course, winning the game is still possible without engaging in fights with good tactics. I just don't think an item which discourages people from fighting in a game where fights matter a lot should exist. I believe this item is too overpowered for this game.

Weakness arrows can be used to counter the strength potions but I don't think players should be able to do it with an item which costs only 2 gold in the Overpowered Mode. In my opinion, the most suitable item to use against strength potions are enchanted golden apples. Unlike weakness arrows, they don't discourage players from fighting.
I'm aware that removing this item would reduce the diversity of the items we have. That's why I believe nerfing this item by adding an item cooldown and increasing its price would be a good idea instead of removing it completely but I would prefer its removal to keeping it at its current state to be honest.

Perfectly explained. These arrows give far too big of an advantage for their dirt cheap cost.

Java Should weakness arrows be removed from eggwars?

Should weakness arrows be removed from Eggwars?

Yes

No

They need to be nerfed in some other way without removing them fully

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